Cop consults psychic to hear murder victim talk

[photon]

A veteran city cop is convinced the voice of murdered prostitute Rachel Quinney was picked up on an audio recording as she spoke from beyond the grave.
"I saw it. I heard it. I believe," said Const. Wayne Fermaniuk, who on June 26 accompanied a psychic to the spot where Quinney's body was discovered.
"If (the psychic) was a phoney, I wanted to expose him. But he's got me. I'm convinced."

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmo...68703-sun.html


Yeesh! He says he wanted to expose the psychic, but says that he went to the site a year earlier with psychic equipment...

How about doing some REAL police work?? I hope he wasn't doing this on paid time.

[troutman]

Nonsense:

http://www.skepdic.com/psychdet.html

A psychic detective (PD) is an alleged psychic who offers to help law enforcement agencies solve crimes.

"These guys don't solve cases, and the media consistently gets it wrong," says Michael Corn, an investigative producer for "Inside Edition" who produced a story last May debunking psychic detectives. Moreover, the FBI and the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children maintain that to their knowledge, psychic detectives have never helped solve a single missing-person case.

"Zero. They go on TV and I see how things go and what they claim but no, zero," says FBI agent Chris Whitcomb. "They may be remarkable in other ways, but the FBI does not use them"

[GoinAllTheWay]

Well of course the FBI is going to deny using them, how would that make them look?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Police use psychics all the time to help solve crimes. I personally dont believe in it but what is the hurt in trying. There have been many reports of police solving crimes with the use of psychics.

[the crispy badger]

There is more to this life and to our Brain then people give credit for..

[photon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Police use psychics all the time to help solve crimes. I personally dont believe in it but what is the hurt in trying. There have been many reports of police solving crimes with the use of psychics.

The hurt in trying is it wastes time and resources, and gives false hope to people.

And I'd like to see a link to said psychically solved crimes. There's a standing $1 million prize for anyone who can prove anything paranormal.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by photon

The hurt in trying is it wastes time and resources, and gives false hope to people.

And I'd like to see a link to said psychically solved crimes. There's a standing $1 million prize for anyone who can prove anything paranormal.

They have used these psychics in these Edmonton Prostitue cases already and on one occation the psychic was able to come up with the name of Tom. The guy that they caught his name was Thomas.

You have to think outside of the box sometimes to solve these cases. I don't think it is a waste of resources to do this. In the case with this discussion the officer did this on his own time and the family paid for the psychic. Thats called community policing.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by the crispy badger

There is more to this life and to our Brain then people give credit for..

I agree! I am a pretty scientific minded individual and I am always skeptical of psychics or paranormal activities, but I have personally experienced some crazy, unexplainable things that makes me second guess the absolute ways of society.

Which makes me feel insane at the same time.

I guess I just haven't seen any scientific evidence of psychics being illegitimate.

[photon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

They have used these psychics in these Edmonton Prostitue cases already and on one occation the psychic was able to come up with the name of Tom. The guy that they caught his name was Thomas.

You have to think outside of the box sometimes to solve these cases. I don't think it is a waste of resources to do this. In the case with this discussion the officer did this on his own time and the family paid for the psychic. Thats called community policing.

So some spirit saying the name Tom on a tape led to the arrest of Thomas Svekla? That's not what happened. Thomas was arrested on a totally different murder by RCMP.

That the cop heard "Tom" doesn't mean anything. It hasn't helped the case. It isn't even the arrested guy's name. We don't even know if the "Tom" name that he heard was "heard" a year ago, or heard two days after Svekla was arrested! There's no proof here.

But this is how psychics seem so real; the odd guess that turns out true and vague statements that can be construed the maximum number of ways are shown as "proof" and people who want to believe put it in their mind as supporting the concept. And if it's shown to be false then oh well, there's lots of other proof. Except that proof is all false too.

If the cop wants to waste his personal time on it, that's fine. As long as public dollars aren't going to pay for it.

But since there's "lots" of examples, surely there's another one that shows a case that was solved as a direct result of psychic's input?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by photon

So some spirit saying the name Tom on a tape led to the arrest of Thomas Svekla? That's not what happened. Thomas was arrested on a totally different murder by RCMP.

That the cop heard "Tom" doesn't mean anything. It hasn't helped the case. It isn't even the arrested guy's name. We don't even know if the "Tom" name that he heard was "heard" a year ago, or heard two days after Svekla was arrested! There's no proof here.

But this is how psychics seem so real; the odd guess that turns out true and vague statements that can be construed the maximum number of ways are shown as "proof" and people who want to believe put it in their mind as supporting the concept. And if it's shown to be false then oh well, there's lots of other proof. Except that proof is all false too.

If the cop wants to waste his personal time on it, that's fine. As long as public dollars aren't going to pay for it.

But since there's "lots" of examples, surely there's another one that shows a case that was solved as a direct result of psychic's input?

Look BUDDY

Just because YOU don't believe in this crap (nor do I) doesn't mean that it doesn't work. You can't prove that they don't work and right now I don't have time to search for evidence for you. However, I have a feeling that if I do obtain some evidence you will not believe no matter what.

Not sure if your aware but Tom is short for Thomas and he is suspected of more than one murder so we don't know if that case is connected or not. The reason why so many cases are not solved is because people become close minded and tunnel visioned. It does not hurt to try this. Wouldn't you feel quite the dick if something actually came out of this.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

I agree! I am a pretty scientific minded individual and I am always skeptical of psychics or paranormal activities, but I have personally experienced some crazy, unexplainable things that makes me second guess the absolute ways of society.

Which makes me feel insane at the same time.

I guess I just haven't seen any scientific evidence of psychics being illegitimate.

The reality is humans are easily tricked and deceived. We can't totally trust our senses or our minds, they are easily manipulated. This has been studied for a long time and there's a mountain of information on it.

I remember reading recently about a psychic that was appearing in Vegas. She had a table at a casino for a few days. She wrote honestly about her account of talking to people, telling them real thing about past events and present circumstances. She tells of how the people wept at how much help she had given them, amazed at how accurate and real she was.

Except she wasn't real. She was a layperson who had some skill at dealing with people who had taken a few days of training in "cold reading". She talked about how easy it was to come up with things that were true that she had no way of knowing, and how much the participants actually helped turn misses into hits. She also talked about how awful it was giving the people false information and false hope, she said it was one of the worst experiences in her life; she felt that bad about it.

You can't prove all psychics are illegitimate. You can however test them and see if their powers are real or not. The ones who accept to being tested have never passed, and the ones who know better refuse to be tested (lest they lose their adoring fans who pay them lots of $$).

Until a psychic comes up and proves their abilities they can't claim they're real. Until then they're simply snake oil sales people that fool people to seperate them from their money.

I've seen and experienced stuff I can't explain as well. Just because I can't explain it doesn't mean it can't be explained.

[jolinar of malkshor]

No one is arguing things can't be explained, you are saying that it is pile of rubish so no point in doing it. Humans are not even close to knowing their true potential or how the universe works so you really have nothing to say other than you don't believe it. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it is not real.

[photon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

No one is arguing things can't be explained, you are saying that it is pile of rubish so no point in doing it. Humans are not even close to knowing their true potential or how the universe works so you really have nothing to say other than you don't believe it. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it is not real.

What I believe has nothing to do with if it is real or not. Evidence has everything to do with it. And there is no evidence (Remember, unanswered questions aren't evidence). If you have some, great! I know where you can get $1 million for it.

Like I said, the burden of proof is not on me to disprove psychics. That's not possible. The burden of proof is for them to prove their abilities. They're the one making claims and charging for it.

Unlike psychics, I have no vested interest in the issue one way or the other. Science is kinda like that; if new information is discovered it is incorporated into the theory, or a new theory is created to explain the observations. If psychics were proven to be true, great! A whole new area of research and exploration, more jobs, etc etc.

So you have no problem with time and resources being spent on things that don't work? I have a car shop, next time you need an oil change bring it to me.. I have a $199 special where I'll change your car's oil AND give it a 1 hour tire massage! I have clients who say their car rides much smoother after the massage.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

I guess I just haven't seen any scientific evidence of psychics being illegitimate.

Nonsense.

There are mountains of evidence that it is BUNK, and ZERO evidence that it is legitimate. The TV show Medium is fictional.

http://www.livescience.com/othernews...um_050204.html

A common pattern occurs in high-profile missing persons cases (such as Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Elizabeth Smart, and countless others): dozens or hundreds of "psychics" offer tips (for free or for pay), yet when police follow up on the information, the vast majority of it ––or all of it––turns out to be wrong. One trick psychics use is to give very vague information open to later interpretation (most missing persons are likely to be found "near water," even if it’s a lake, puddle, river, drainage pipe, etc.). They also use information already available through normal means, and make so many different guesses that some will almost certainly be right. Police must follow up on all tips, including those from dubious sources, thus wasting precious hours and police manpower. When bodies are found it is always through accident or police work. Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information.

http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html

From the 14 cases that Carla Baron promotes as her best work, we can positively conclude that her claims of being a psychic detective are unsubstantiated.

“Psychic Detectives” claim to have compassion, but they cannot produce the consistent results that science-based procedures do, so it’s a hollow claim.

Unfortunately, forensic science cannot be utilized when the perpetrator leaves no clues behind, and that's the distressing situation faced by many of the family members profiled in this report. We do not have the answers for them, and we recognize that this is a central element of their grief – the lack of answers.

The only advice we’re qualified to give to someone in that position is this: it would be very easy for someone to take advantage of your confusion and grief, but don’t let them. This does nothing to honor the memory of your lost loved ones, and if they were here, they would want to protect you from this as well.

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/police-psychics.html

Except in the extremely rare case in which a psychic was actually involved in the crime or had apparently received secret information (as from a tip), psychics rarely lead police to concealed bodies or unknown assailants. Of course they may use their own logical skills, or they may benefit from luck or perseverance, but there is no credible scientific evidence that psychic power ever solved a crime. Instead, crimes are invariably solved by police who search crime scenes, interview witnesses, and perform all of the myriad tasks necessary to locate a missing person or to convict a criminal.
Common sense suggests that if psychics really had the powers they claim then they would long ago have identified the "Unabomber" or have discovered the remains of missing Teamster boss Jimmy Hoffa. If they cannot accomplish such missions individually, how much more telling is their collective inability to do so

[JimmytheT]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Look BUDDY

Just because YOU don't believe in this crap (nor do I) doesn't mean that it doesn't work. You can't prove that they don't work and right now I don't have time to search for evidence for you. However, I have a feeling that if I do obtain some evidence you will not believe no matter what.

Not sure if your aware but Tom is short for Thomas and he is suspected of more than one murder so we don't know if that case is connected or not. The reason why so many cases are not solved is because people become close minded and tunnel visioned. It does not hurt to try this. Wouldn't you feel quite the dick if something actually came out of this.

It is very difficult, and usually impossible to prove a negative. The onus is on the person claiming a "psychic" power to prove that they have such a power, not for I or anyone else to prove that it doesn't exist.

Think of this example: Someone claims Santa Claus exists and challenges me to prove that he does not exist. So I travel the world, to various locations, including the north pole and find no trace of Santa Claus. However, I still cannot prove he does not exist because Santa Claus could have been in another location when I was visiting say the North Pole. You see the problem here right? NO matter how many places I cannot find Santa Claus, however this is not proof positive he does not exist.
What needs to be done here is the person who claims Santa Claus exists has to provide me with evidence (and very good evidence at that) that he does exist.

There has never been any solid evidence that "psychic" powers are real, and all "psychics", "mediums" etc. have failed every legitimate controlled scientific test.

Perhaps you should research such psychological phenomenons such as subjective validation, confirmation bias (the Forer effect), and communal reinforcement, just to name a few. You might also want to look into things like cold reading, and hot reading.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by troutman

Nonsense.

There are mountains of evidence that it is BUNK, and ZERO evidence that it is legitimate. The TV show Medium is fictional.

http://www.livescience.com/othernews...um_050204.html

A common pattern occurs in high-profile missing persons cases (such as Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Elizabeth Smart, and countless others): dozens or hundreds of "psychics" offer tips (for free or for pay), yet when police follow up on the information, the vast majority of it ––or all of it––turns out to be wrong. One trick psychics use is to give very vague information open to later interpretation (most missing persons are likely to be found "near water," even if it’s a lake, puddle, river, drainage pipe, etc.). They also use information already available through normal means, and make so many different guesses that some will almost certainly be right. Police must follow up on all tips, including those from dubious sources, thus wasting precious hours and police manpower. When bodies are found it is always through accident or police work. Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information.

http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html

From the 14 cases that Carla Baron promotes as her best work, we can positively conclude that her claims of being a psychic detective are unsubstantiated.

“Psychic Detectives” claim to have compassion, but they cannot produce the consistent results that science-based procedures do, so it’s a hollow claim.

Unfortunately, forensic science cannot be utilized when the perpetrator leaves no clues behind, and that's the distressing situation faced by many of the family members profiled in this report. We do not have the answers for them, and we recognize that this is a central element of their grief – the lack of answers.

The only advice we’re qualified to give to someone in that position is this: it would be very easy for someone to take advantage of your confusion and grief, but don’t let them. This does nothing to honor the memory of your lost loved ones, and if they were here, they would want to protect you from this as well.

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/police-psychics.html

Except in the extremely rare case in which a psychic was actually involved in the crime or had apparently received secret information (as from a tip), psychics rarely lead police to concealed bodies or unknown assailants. Of course they may use their own logical skills, or they may benefit from luck or perseverance, but there is no credible scientific evidence that psychic power ever solved a crime. Instead, crimes are invariably solved by police who search crime scenes, interview witnesses, and perform all of the myriad tasks necessary to locate a missing person or to convict a criminal.
Common sense suggests that if psychics really had the powers they claim then they would long ago have identified the "Unabomber" or have discovered the remains of missing Teamster boss Jimmy Hoffa. If they cannot accomplish such missions individually, how much more telling is their collective inability to do so

Heathen....

I, for one, have psychic powers.

For example, I see you, creating your post, in my mind. You're sitting on a chair. You are typing. I see the colour black! There is black near you or on you.

Don't deny it... I can go further!

You are on a floor, and there are walls around you, 3 or 4 of them. I can certainly see 3, but there might be four. And they're a light colour.

You have a chair. It swivels. It also tilts.

You're in Calgary. Yes, I can see the nearby traffic patterns, definitely Calgary.

You have a mom... and a dad! But they're not near you right now......

OK, if you want the rest, you have to send $100.00 to my paypal account.

[troutman]

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/01/01cjohnedwards.phtml

John Edwards: Welcome to "Crossing Over". Before we begin, I must stress again the importance of remembering the details that come from these sessions. Specifically, the things that don't seem to make sense at first. It's imperative that you remember everything I say. Okay. I think I'm ready. And.. I'm going over here.. in this direction.. right here. And someone over here, I'm getting a J. A J.. a woman with a J connection. Who's got a woman with a J? [ no response ] Maybe K? K or J? A woman with a K or J. [ no response ] Or.. R? K, J, R.. or F.

Fran's Friend: [ raises hand ] Oh! I know an F!

John Edwards: Okay. Okay, what's the name?

Fran's Friend: Fran.

John Edwards: And she passed recently?

No, she's sitting right here.

John Edwards: Okay.. maybe it was Fran I was getting. Fran, did you have someone pass recently?

Fran: Yes, I did.

John Edwards: Okay. And did their name begin with a J or a K?

Fran: No.

John Edwards: [ pause ] Or a P? Or a B?

Fran: No.

John Edwards: T, L, Z or D?

Fran: No.

John Edwards: Or.. S.. or W? A taller person.. name begins with a B.. or an H. [ no response ] B or a G?

Fran: No. I'm sorry.

John Edwards: Could be a man.. who owned an animal.. or saw an animal.. in the wild.. or in a zoo setting? [ pause ] It might have been a man with a TV or a radio.. in his apartment or his home.. or his office.. or his parents' home.. or in a dormitory. Name begins with Y or M.. or C.. or an E..

Originally Posted by photon

So some spirit saying the name Tom on a tape led to the arrest of Thomas Svekla? That's not what happened. Thomas was arrested on a totally different murder by RCMP.

That the cop heard "Tom" doesn't mean anything. It hasn't helped the case. It isn't even the arrested guy's name. We don't even know if the "Tom" name that he heard was "heard" a year ago, or heard two days after Svekla was arrested! There's no proof here.

But this is how psychics seem so real; the odd guess that turns out true and vague statements that can be construed the maximum number of ways are shown as "proof" and people who want to believe put it in their mind as supporting the concept. And if it's shown to be false then oh well, there's lots of other proof. Except that proof is all false too.

If the cop wants to waste his personal time on it, that's fine. As long as public dollars aren't going to pay for it.

But since there's "lots" of examples, surely there's another one that shows a case that was solved as a direct result of psychic's input?

Are you a homicide detective or do you have any experience investigating major crimes?
Questioning the validating of paranormal/psychic evidence is fine, but saying that it is a useless tool for an investigator shows your ignorance.
Rarely, is a homicide solved on one single piece of evidence but moreso on a conglomerate of circumstantial evidence that can point (based on reasonable grounds) that someone has commited a murder.

Let me ask you this, if you had a loved one murdered, wouldnt you like the investigator to exhaust every resource possible including a psychic?

[photon]

I never claimed to be an expert on solving crimes. However you say solving a homicide is based on a congolmerate of circumstantial evidence. This is something a psychic cannot provide, because their "powers" are based purely their ability to make people think they know something when they actually don't; their ability to make a whole bunch of guesses and rely on the perception that those guesses were right.

How will that help a murder investigation; what circumstantial evidence does that provide? In what way is a psychic a useful tool for an investigation?

Again, as troutman posted, "there is no credible scientific evidence that psychic power ever solved a crime."

Maybe they should use the psychics that predicted 9/11. Oh wait, they can't. That's because there were none. Zero.

If I had a loved one murdered, I can honestly say I would be irate if I found the police were wasting their time consulting with a psychic.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I believe everyone has some psychic ability in them, some just more then others.
There have been many times when I've been thinking something, and then I will hear or see something about it right away out of the blue. I consider that to be more then a coincedence.

I think these famous psychics work the same way, they're just a bit better at it then most. They don't actually know everything, and they certainly make mistakes, but they do get hunches about things that are often close to the truth.

Just a couple of days ago my GF went to see a psychic in Thailand, who told her she has a boyfriend of a different ethnicity. This is true. Could just be a lucky guess, but it seems like a strange thing to guess IMO. If he just says things to scam peoples money, that certainly doesn't seem like a high probobility thing to say.