Klein leadership review - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Fozzie_DeBear · 03-13-2006, 12:26 PM

This morning on CBC radio there was a story about how Ralph Klein's leadership review was going to take place.

Instead of every MLA placing vote in a secret ballot, every riding is going to nominate someone to do it on their behalf. And it doesn't seem like there is any consistency to how the representatives are chosen. It looks to me like they were concerned about how MLA's may have actually voted and are taking steps to make Klein's review go as smoothly as possible.

This causus ****es me off no end and I can't wait for a changing of the guard.

Why do Albertans remain uber-vigalent when it comes to federal abuses of power and outright condone provincial abuses? If the Federal Liberals has tried to pull 10% of the crap Ralph has pulled we would have seperated decades ago....

Thoughts?
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Extreme Q

Cowperson · 03-13-2006, 12:37 PM

If the Federal Liberals has tried to pull 10% of the crap Ralph has pulled we would have seperated decades ago....

Wasn't there a survey released a few days ago showing about 70% + of Albertans have a favourable opinion of Ralph Klein?

I remember the days when he had a 90%+ approval rating when he was mayor of Calgary.

Cowperson

transplant99 · 03-13-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

This morning on CBC radio there was a story about how Ralph Klein's leadership review was going to take place.

Instead of every MLA placing vote in a secret ballot, every riding is going to nominate someone to do it on their behalf. And it doesn't seem like there is any consistency to how the representatives are chosen. It looks to me like they were concerned about how MLA's may have actually voted and are taking steps to make Klein's review go as smoothly as possible.

This causus ****es me off no end and I can't wait for a changing of the guard.

Why do Albertans remain uber-vigalent when it comes to federal abuses of power and outright condone provincial abuses? If the Federal Liberals has tried to pull 10% of the crap Ralph has pulled we would have seperated decades ago....

Thoughts?

Im not sure what it is you are on about either.

No question he has had his share of screw ups....and some of them embarrassing.

however, when you look at the overall picture of what shape the province was in when he was first elected, as opposed to now, its night and day.

Even before oil skyrocketed and provided an unforeseen revenue stream, he had a very solid plan in action to cut waste in gov't and reduce the debt and deficit. That happened sooner rather than later, and since it was pretty much the platform he was elected on...its hard to see where anyone would have a huge problem with the results.

He will be out of politics within a year though....so i wouldnt worry a whole lot about this review.

Bend it like Bourgeois · 03-13-2006, 01:23 PM

I wouldn't be so sure that the PCs are trying to rig this in Klein's favour.
The man is not popular in lots of circles these days and while I'm pretty sure the party will close ranks and support him, they may not.

Klein is the world's greatest example of why some places have term limits. From 2001 on his leadership has been a disaster and if he didn't have the success of 1993-2001 I think you're right - we'd be talking about his gov't in exactly the same way as the federal liberals. (Minus the theft...just gotta get that in there

)

Cowperson · 03-13-2006, 01:37 PM

I also think its time for Ralph to be gone . . . . . the guy can almost do no wrong in the public eye but if we were casting a jaundiced look at his increasingly autocratic style or somewhat eccentric behaviour, we'd probably want someone more business-like.

If there was a picture of a "Teflon Politician" in the dictionary, it would be illustrated with Ralph's picture.

I remember touring the bowels of Calgary's city hall in the late 1970's and coming across Ralph in the media room in jeans, cowboy hat, his cowboy boots up on a chair, a smoke dangling from his lips and a beer in hand.

He really hasn't changed much.

Cowperson

Canada 02 · 03-13-2006, 01:37 PM

Much ado about nothin'
How is this an abuse of power? The Tories are free to conduct their internal leadership review as they please. Maintaining party solidarity is paramount to any successful party - sure better than the Federal Liberals fracturing along Chrétien or Martin allegiances. As someone who has voted for the Klein Tories in the past, I am looking forward to the day he steps down and someone with fresh ideas and an updated vision for the Province takes over. Until then, regardless of a secret ballot or open vote, Klein will have the total public support of his caucus, and thats the way it should be.

Phaneuf3 · 03-13-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I remember touring the bowels of Calgary's city hall in the late 1970's and coming across Ralph in the media room in jeans, cowboy hat, his cowboy boots up on a chair, a smoke dangling from his lips and a beer in hand.

he seems to be getting a lot of crap here. i'd like to know why as i'm fairly new to paying attention to this kinda stuff cause i'm finally old enough for it to affect me and for me to vote. what he does in his private life is none of my business. what i care about is what he does for the province/me. from what i've seen, he's done a pretty good job.

also, i want someone who represents me. and from your encounter with him, i'd say he represents me pretty darn well.

Winsor_Pilates · 03-13-2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

also, i want someone who represents me. and from your encounter with him, i'd say he represents me pretty darn well.

And that's the bottom line. Cowboy boots, beer and smokes...perfect for the average Joe Alberta. Who cares what he says or does... he's one of us.

Phaneuf3 · 03-13-2006, 03:36 PM

k that part was said half jokingly, but i would honestly like to know what policy decisions make him a bad leader

Winsor_Pilates · 03-13-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

k that part was said half jokingly, but i would honestly like to know what policy decisions make him a bad leader

I didn't mean to take a shot at you in particular. Sorry that it came off like that. It's a common view among many Klein supporters. A large part of his popularity comes from the fact that people here feel he's a lot like themselves.

ken0042 · 03-13-2006, 03:45 PM

And a lot of people who are against him get mad at the rest of us when his popularity goes up after doing something silly.

Like when he went to the Edmonton homeless shelter at midnight; drunk, and told them all to get a fricken job.

Fozzie_DeBear · 03-13-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

k that part was said half jokingly, but i would honestly like to know what policy decisions make him a bad leader

I'd like to turn it around, what policy decisions has he made since 2002 that have made him a good leader?
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DIGITAL SCALES

Footscray · 03-13-2006, 04:09 PM

A total aside but i wish they would use the surplus money to build that passenger rail line between calgary and edmonton, do something with the surplus money that actually improves the province. I haven't really seen anything he has done with it that stands out - a monkey could have kept the business sector booming with that much money but it takes some foresight to improve the province long term.

Phaneuf3 · 03-13-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

I'd like to turn it around, what policy decisions has he made since 2002 that have made him a good leader?

again, i'm sorta new to paying attention to this kind of stuff so i'm probably not even fit to try to defend policies on this and my facts are most likely wrong:

the health conference last summer (i believe the prov, government had a huge hand in this) was a big step in the right direction.
considering health care reform in general.
when the mad cow thing was going on, sending lawyers to the states to defend alberta's interests when the feds wouldn't.

ken0042 · 03-13-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footscray

A total aside but i wish they would use the surplus money to build that passenger rail line between calgary and edmonton

Every time this question comes up I just cringe. Last figures I heard put this around $100 Billion. It would still have to run city limits to city limits like the airports, there would still be a check in time like the airports, and there still would be the security delas like the airports.

Plus due to the climate in Alberta where we have temperatures all the way from -35 to +35 the gaps in the tracks would have to be so big that the train would have a max speed nowhere near what the trains in Japan have.

Can you give me one good reason why this is a good idea?

Phaneuf3 · 03-13-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

And a lot of people who are against him get mad at the rest of us when his popularity goes up after doing something silly.

Like when he went to the Edmonton homeless shelter at midnight; drunk, and told them all to get a fricken job.

while yes, he is a jerk for this and took stuff too far but in another sense i admire the fact that he's not too worried about being completely politically correct and will often call a spade a spade.

having said that.. i don't worry too much about this kind of stuff when it happens. i don't care about his personal life, i do care about what changes he does/doesn't make while in office though

Phaneuf3 · 03-13-2006, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

Every time this question comes up I just cringe. Last figures I heard put this around $100 Billion. It would still have to run city limits to city limits like the airports, there would still be a check in time like the airports, and there still would be the security delas like the airports.

Plus due to the climate in Alberta where we have temperatures all the way from -35 to +35 the gaps in the tracks would have to be so big that the train would have a max speed nowhere near what the trains in Japan have.

Can you give me one good reason why this is a good idea?

the security on a rail line like that, while higher than the c-train, would be nothing close to what it is in the airport. there's no REAL chance of anyone hijacking the train and driving it into the white house or forcing the driver to change course and go to cuba.

Canada 02 · 03-13-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footscray

a monkey could have kept the business sector booming with that much money but it takes some foresight to improve the province long term.

Alberta has the advantage of having oil and gas, which is currently more lucrative than many/most other natural resources. However, other provinces have resource riches as well, but don't have the pro-business/investment policies and tax structure that Alberta has to benefit from this. B.C has gas, forestry, fisheries, mining, tourism - unfortunately, they mismanaged these industries and some (forest and fish) were decimated. The NEP is an example of how bad public policy can destroy an industry, including oil and gas. Fortunately, the Alberta Tories are good for the economy, and they have had the foresight to create two multi-billion dollar heritage funds

SweetDoc · 03-13-2006, 04:45 PM

Klein understands being accountable, after all he was a journalist. He has a great understanding of economics, this has helped Alberta gain mojor investments domestically and fereign. Large corporations get tax benefits being here, a good way to seduce companies to create jobs here. Some of the decisions he's made have backfired, but he's never been one to try and win a popularity contest, he does however try to make life better for Albertans.

Media and members of the opposition will always try to rip him and bring him down, no matter how well he has done. I like how Alberta is now and he's a major reason why. And yes we are getting jacked federally, nothing new, the new part is someone actually saying something about it.

Bend it like Bourgeois · 03-13-2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

again, i'm sorta new to paying attention to this kind of stuff so i'm probably not even fit to try to defend policies on this and my facts are most likely wrong:

You're as fit as anyone I'm sure.

My concerns center around 2 things:

- king ralph ruling by decree and literally governing by the seat of his pants, often in ways motivated more by ego and politics than prudent management of the province
- the PCs total abandonment of fiscal responsibility since 2001

So, for example, the infamous Ralphbucks program was conceived, decided, and announced without consultation from his cabinet, the treasury, or his caucus. Some members of caucus damn near begged to revisit the issue and Ralph just decided it should be thus. He wouldn't even allow a vote. That's 1.4 billion spent without any discussion, debate, consideration or god forbid a plan. even if you like the idea (and about half of Albertans do) the process is not way to run a government.