[Signing] Wings sign Raymond (8 yrs, $8.075 mil AAV)

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1835812462836457587

[BigThief]

That's a brilliant f'n contract for the Wings

[Paulie Walnuts]

The Red Wings seem like a bunch of meh. No real star outside of Seider

[dammage79]

That's gonna be worth every penny.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Good deal.

ELC guys should really stop signing for 8 years. Have you learned nothing from Jack Hughes?

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The Red Wings seem like a bunch of meh. No real star outside of Seider

You're in the thread of a guy who put up 30 goals and 70 points as a 21 year old. Raymond is as much a potential star as Seider is. Any team would dream to have either player.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

ELC guys should really stop signing for 8 years. Have you learned nothing from Jack Hughes?

The 22 year old just guaranteed himself 64 million dollars. It's not a big lesson.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Good deal.

ELC guys should really stop signing for 8 years. Have you learned nothing from Jack Hughes?

Consider it's a $64M+ insurance policy.

He’ll get a large 3rd contract if this ends up being a bargain.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Interesting.

He had two pretty good seasons as a young offensive player, and then a pretty big year last year. Doesn't do much outside of scoring as he isn't much of a defensive or physical player. Not sure he's worth this much, even though he legitimately has some pretty great offensive skill.

Just for comparison, Sam Reinhart just signed a UFA deal where he makes just a few hundred thousand more, and he's a much, much better defensive player with a long history of his high level of play and a Stanley Cup winning pedigree.

I get wanting to pay young stars, but this seems like too much for what he actually brings to the team. Perhaps it ends up being a bargain (cap going up and all that), but he might just be the next Jeff Skinner. Stay tuned.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Interesting.

He had two pretty good seasons as a young offensive player, and then a pretty big year last year. Doesn't do much outside of scoring as he isn't much of a defensive or physical player. Not sure he's worth this much, even though he legitimately has some pretty great offensive skill.

Just for comparison, Sam Reinhart just signed a UFA deal where he makes just a few hundred thousand more, and he's a much, much better defensive player with a long history of his high level of play and a Stanley Cup winning pedigree..

Raymond is an incredibly intelligent player who was noted for his two-way and defensive player going into his draft year, just because he hasn't developed a defensive game yet (what forward has at 21, Reinhart wasn't) but it's a steal of a deal for a 22 year old foward with such dynamic offensive upside.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The thing is he can score but the Wings are out of the rebuild and didn’t get a C. So now they are paying a bunch of wingers.

It’s why it’s critical for the Flames to tank properly the next few years.

Unless they find someone in the draft, or suck and get a high pick I don’t see the Wings doing much but competing for 7 or 8th.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Raymond is an incredibly intelligent player who was noted for his two-way and defensive player going into his draft year, just because he hasn't developed a defensive game yet (what forward has at 21, Reinhart wasn't) but it's a steal of a deal for a 22 year old foward with such dynamic offensive upside.

I'm just saying, if you compare to some other contracts in the league, it doesn't really make a ton of sense. He's not even a PPG player yet.

It's not that I don't like him, I just think this might be a misplaced bet on his potential.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm just saying, if you compare to some other contracts in the league, it doesn't really make a ton of sense. He's not even a PPG player yet.

It's not that I don't like him, I just think this might be a misplaced bet on his potential.

You bet on potential for these kinds of players 10 times out of 10. Matthew Tkachuk is Exhibit A of what can happen if you don't. He wasn't a PPG when we bridged him either. Jason Robertson is another cautionary tale of what happens when you don't. J. Hughes, B. Tkachuk, A. Svechnikov, Beniers, now Raymond...these are all contracts that are going to age well long term.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm just saying, if you compare to some other contracts in the league, it doesn't really make a ton of sense. He's not even a PPG player yet.

72 points in 82 games.

They're buying into his talent and probably still getting a bargain.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm just saying, if you compare to some other contracts in the league, it doesn't really make a ton of sense. He's not even a PPG player yet.

It's not that I don't like him, I just think this might be a misplaced bet on his potential.

Reinhart has been a PPG player twice in his career, the first time after he turned 27.

I'm not sure comparing a 28 year old UFA contract which will expire when the player is 37 to a 22 year old player is a fair comparison.

I would expect that Raymond and his contract has more trade value that Reinhart and his contract.

[Scroopy Noopers]

On the surface I like this approach teams are taking with younger players.

However, I am super happy that the Flames are in a rebuild mode during this transition time among contracts. They get to sit back and see how it goes, and then decide their approach in 3ish years.

The last time there was a big push from young players was the shift to contracts going right to UFA. And we all remember being stuck in the middle of that, and how well it worked.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

On the surface I like this approach teams are taking with younger players.

However, I am super happy that the Flames are in a rebuild mode during this transition time among contracts. They get to sit back and see how it goes, and then decide their approach in 3ish years.

The last time there was a big push from young players was the shift to contracts going right to UFA. And we all remember being stuck in the middle of that, and how well it worked.

I think players objective is to:
(1) Get a 8 year contract for as much as possible; or
(2) If teams cannot afford to commit long term because they are cap strapped, players will settle for deals that take them straight to UFA with increasing salaries.

Calgary could not afford the cap for an 8 year deal with Tkachuk, so bent on giving him the most favourable deal possible instead of the 8 year deal.

I don't think players shifted to those type of deals, they did so out of necessity.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The thing is he can score but the Wings are out of the rebuild and didn’t get a C. So now they are paying a bunch of wingers.

It’s why it’s critical for the Flames to tank properly the next few years.

Unless they find someone in the draft, or suck and get a high pick I don’t see the Wings doing much but competing for 7 or 8th.

Your hate on for the wings is reaching hysterical levels. Let's see how Nate Danielson looks at NHL level before saying they have no C. Also, Larkin is better than any C the flames have iced since... Nieuwendyk? I think he would have put up better numbers than lindy between Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by BigThief

72 points in 82 games.

They're buying into his talent and probably still getting a bargain.

In a few seasons, the going rate for a 60-70 point forward will probably be around $8 million.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

In a few seasons, the going rate for a 60-70 point forward will probably be around $8 million.

I think it's already at $8M for a 70 point forward - which is why this is a good deal.

They get 8 years, and don't really have to overpay on upside at all.

If he just plateaus as a 70-75 point forward then you're already happy with that for $8M.

Travis Konecny just got $8.75M and he's a career high 68 points (if you pro-rate his best P/PG season it's 82)

Jake Guentzel has a career high 84, and put up 73 and 77 the past two seasons and he's getting $9M.

72 points for $8M is already market rate, if there is anymore upside on Raymond still then this is a huge win for Detroit.