The Temporary Foreign Worker program in Alberta

[Jets4Life]

"Mayors from small town Alberta say they are getting more and more frustrated with the federal government over changes it has made to the temporary foreign worker program."

"Many mayors say businesses will have to close within a year, when the contracts for the current crop of workers runs out.

Kenney has said if provinces such as Alberta don't like Ottawa's crackdown on temporary foreign workers, they should be spending more federal transfer funds on vocational schools."

http://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/news...gram-1.1389946



"Prentice said the new rules are making it very difficult for some businesses to fill jobs and hopes to work with Harper on a solution.

“With the population pressure we’re under, with the job creation pressure that we’re under in this province, I’ve heard loud and clear over the summer from business people that the changes on temporary foreign workers are going to be very, very difficult,” Prentice said Monday.

Prentice said Alberta has accounted for almost all of Canada’s job growth yet receives only two per cent of the immigration nominees."

http://globalnews.ca/news/1576325/ne...orker-changes/



I'm wondering what the end result will be, when the workers have to return to their respective countries. At the employment rate, Alberta may not have enough workers for fast food restaurants, and retirement homes.

[SebC]

This is the sort of thing the market can account for. Offer higher wages, and charge your customers more. If you still can't make it work, then it probably wasn't a necessary service - and if it is then we should be doing more than making temporary foreign workers accessible.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by SebC

This is the sort of thing the market can account for. Offer higher wages, and charge your customers more. If you still can't make it work, then it probably wasn't a necessary service - and if it is then we should be doing more than making temporary foreign workers accessible.

We should be granting many of them permanent residence.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

I'm sure the the same in cities, but coming from the red deer area all I hear is constant bitching about the origin of Tim Hortons staff or any other fast food and shovelling #### on the TFW program. Fact is if we had local people applying for those jobs and they were still being outsourced (abusing the spirit of the system), by all means be upset.

My problem is .. When I ask someone who starts their argument with "I'm not a racist but.." what their beef is with the TFW program, the response is invariably "taking jobs away from Canadians."

For fun I ask if they have recently applied for a job at said department store / fast food chain. Being so passionate you'd think the topic struck close to home.

"Hell no, I wouldn't even let my wife work there."

Because most of us are too good for those jobs, and too spoiled by the big money lifestyle we have taken as our birth right.

I realize skilled jobs and using the program to circumvent industry rates for wages is a whole different can of worms and I'm not even touching that one. But the program has a ton of valid applications.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by SebC

This is the sort of thing the market can account for. Offer higher wages, and charge your customers more. If you still can't make it work, then it probably wasn't a necessary service - and if it is then we should be doing more than making temporary foreign workers accessible.

Higher wages will not make the Cargill meat plant an attractive place to work. The same applies to fast food jobs. A crappy job is still a crappy job.

FTW's were brought in to do jobs that Canadians won't do. They are reliable and dedicated to thier job and are grateful to be employed.

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by Dion

Higher wages will not make the Cargill meat plant an attractive place to work. The same applies to fast food jobs. A crappy job is still a crappy job.

FTW's were brought in to do jobs that Canadians won't do. They are reliable and dedicated to thier job and are grateful to be employed.

I've worked in the food industry for many years and I honestly enjoy working with FTW's more than Canadians.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

Higher wages will not make the Cargill meat plant an attractive place to work. The same applies to fast food jobs. A crappy job is still a crappy job.

Yeah, a crappy job is a crappy job. I can't argue with that. But the crappiness of that job goes down as the money you get paid for the crappy job goes up.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, a crappy job is a crappy job. I can't argue with that. But the crappiness of that job goes down as the money you get paid for the crappy job goes up.

Take a tour of the Cargill meat plant

[pseudoreality]

A coffee shop owner came out and said exactly why he liked the TFP so much. Its a form of indentured servitude. The companies know they have them for 6 months or a year and they can't work elsewhere. Canadian works with options quit crappy jobs and look for other work.

[2ArmBands]

It's one thing with fast food jobs and jobs that are defined as undesirable. I worked for a large electricial contractor on an O&G project that hired "qualified" foreign workers. It was terrifying. Their training and experience simply does not translate to that of a Joureyman in Canada.

We were doing major electrical installs with people that could barely grasp English. It's absolutely ridiculous and I feel it's not much different in other trades. It's a safety hazard, communication in construction is a core safety issue.

It came to a point where Foremen or project managers had to basically hide these guys and give them the most simple of tasks. It was their only option as they clearly weren't allowed to simply let these guys go.

Someone will likely jump on me for being racist but when it becomes a major safety concern for myself, my coworkers (foreign workers included) I feel the need to tell it like it is.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Dion

Take a tour of the Cargill meat plant

I believe Cargill pays 17.30-19.00$ an hour for entry level work at that plant as a Meat Cutter doing line cuts.

Would be curious to hear what higher wage would be acceptable from those who are advocating it.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

It's one thing with fast food jobs and jobs that are defined as undesirable. I worked for a large electricial contractor on an O&G project that hired "qualified" foreign workers. It was terrifying. Their training and experience simply does not translate to that of a Joureyman in Canada.

That is on your recruiters. Plenty of good talent from other countries that can be found that have strong english skills. IIRC, I think lots of Electricians were hired right out of Ireland / UK for the Oil Sands.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

I'm wondering what the end result will be, when the workers have to return to their respective countries. At the employment rate, Alberta may not have enough workers for fast food restaurants, and retirement homes.

In hot spots like northern Alberta businesses are going to reduce services or close. And its not just a couple tim hortons going drive through only. It'll hurt.

I heard Kenney speak on the issue this morning and in general he makes a lot of good arguments. Classic ivory tower issue though where he and a bunch of smart folks figure they have it all figured out, without any real world understanding to balance them off.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dion

Higher wages will not make the Cargill meat plant an attractive place to work. The same applies to fast food jobs. A crappy job is still a crappy job.

FTW's were brought in to do jobs that Canadians won't do. They are reliable and dedicated to thier job and are grateful to be employed.

If a Canadian won't do the job maybe we shouldn't bring in slaves to do it.

Increase general immigration rates if this is a systemic issue. TFPs should be for temporary spikes in demand and not a long term solution.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

I've worked in the food industry for many years and I honestly enjoy working with FTW's more than Canadians.

Big difference between someone constantly complaining about being at work vs working alongside someone happy to be there. I also know in the service industry id rather have someone greet me with a smile than some hungover kid who acts like s/he is being punished by being there

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by GGG

If a Canadian won't do the job maybe we shouldn't bring in slaves to do it.

Increase general immigration rates if this is a systemic issue. TFPs should be for temporary spikes in demand and not a long term solution.

why do you think that TFW are slaves?

[chemgear]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince...orms-1.2780660

"It has really left our employers in a very dire situation particularly in seafood processing, where many don’t know how they’re going to be able to open next year,” she says.

But Kenney says data indicates there is no labour shortage, that there are Islanders to do the work.

"Our data very clearly indicates that, in every month of the year here in Prince Edward Island, there are more unemployed fish processing plant workers receiving unemployment insurance than there are folks coming in as temporary foreign workers — which indicates that there is not a shortage of fish processing workers," he says.

Kenney says the government is trying to encourage islanders using the Employment Insurance program to seek and accept available work at their skill level in their area.

[CaptainYooh]

Those advocating for suspension of the TFW program have no freakin clue of the impact this would have on so many aspects of other people whose lives and well-being are dependent on it. TFW are often employed as caregivers to the disabled individuals. They are paid by the individuals themselves or their families and even at minimum wage, this translates to approximately $2,100 per month for a caregiver working normal full-time at 44 hours/wk. Caregivers working in agencies here receive close to $20/hr, which would translate to over $4,000/month. For comparison, AISH pays only $1,588/month o a disabled individual, which amount is supposed to cover all of their needs. Being able to hire TFW at $10/hr is the only affordable alternative source of help to these people. Don't forget, that caregivers working under TFW program live in their host family homes for a fixed low cost of $320/month, which is much lower than the prevailing market cost of renting and living in your own home.

TFW program is an excellent opportunity for foreigners having no other way to emigrate and get settled in Canada. Most, if not all of them, apply for permanent residency at the end of their first contract and receive open work permit thereafter.

[2ArmBands]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

That is on your recruiters. Plenty of good talent from other countries that can be found that have strong english skills. IIRC, I think lots of Electricians were hired right out of Ireland / UK for the Oil Sands.

You're absolutely correct. Perhaps it was unfair of me to not mention some of the good things that are happening with the program. Unfortunately for me the bad things I've seen seem to shadow the good

[GGG]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

why do you think that TFW are slaves?

Not quite slaves but close
Do work that citizens don't want to do
Don't have freedom of movement
Don't really have a recourse against their employers so can't get up an leave
Are paid below the rate at which a citizen will do the job
No path to citizenship. Once we are done with them we send them home.

We look down at Dubai and Qatars construction practices because they use effectively slave labour. They are underpaid and don't have recourses against their employer. The only real difference is that our minimum employment standards at least provide a safe working environment.

If we need more people to fill jobs lets do it through immigration. If the conditions of a job for a level of pay aren't good enough for a citizen they aren't good enough for a tfw.