Legit

[sclitheroe]

I don't expect everyone, or anyone, to agree with me, but I wanted to share my thoughts on this as food for thought - maybe you feel the same, maybe you don't. Maybe you can afford to do this, maybe you can't. Maybe my approach is sound, maybe it has flaws.

2013 is the year I go legit.

At the end of 2012, I'm dragging around over 2 TB of movies I'll never watch again (Does anyone really want to commit two hours to sit and watch Chain Reaction a second time? Really? Why did I even download that in the first place?). I've got a music library that is over-expansive, to the point where I can't tell anymore if the albums I've downloaded are complete, un-corrupt, and tagged correctly, because I could listen to my library for 8 hours a day for 153 days and not hit a repeat. It would take me even longer than that to inspect and fix up the meta-data for every album - I could probably hire a high school student to do it for me part time, and they'd make out alright.

So right off the bat, what I've got now is a big sprawling mess - it's actually better than most people's libraries; it's not a jumbled directory of MP3's, but the overall size means even a 15% error rate on meta-data or the files themselves is close to 3000 bad tracks.

On top of that, my resources are limited. I can keep throwing disks at this beast, but I have to buy the disks. I have to keep the server up. I have to back the data up. In two different locations. So now I need a fat internet pipe to keep this stuff in the cloud too. My usage report at Shaw shows something like 1/2 to 3/4's of my monthly bandwidth usage is spent backing this stuff up to the cloud. All of this costs time and money. If I ever had to recover from the cloud, I don't know how well it would even work - pulling down individual files is easy, but I need to recover tens of thousands of them if my house burns down. And why am I even saving and protecting this stuff when 50% of it is unplayed, or played once never to be accessed again?

My time is limited - I have less free time for media consumption than I used to. I obtain stuff faster than I can invest the time to listen to it or watch it critically. I'm not even sure I can listen to an artist once as it flashes by on my hard drive and learn anything about them - but I have to keep going or the backlog doesn't shrink. Out of 18,000 tracks, 12,000 are still unplayed. I think by downloading less, I can concentrate on a quality experience rather than a quantity based one.

I'm an amateur musician. I think. Or maybe just a hobbiest guitar player, I'm not sure where the line is drawn. But I'm methodically practicing and learning every single day. And in the genre I'm studying, the blues, I listen to a lot of music as a learning tool. I'm listening to, and learning from, guys that are masters and who have invested thousands more hours in their craft than me. I think I owe them some compensation for this, because I'm standing on their shoulders. Blues musicians aren't exactly millionaires - there's a reason a lot of the greats are in their 70's and still touring. I feel like in some small way I might be in their circle, and that it's not right to be stealing from brothers and sisters.

I wonder about the economy. Yeah, I know artists mostly make their money touring. Yeah I know the cost of digital media duplication and distribution approaches zero. There's lots of questions about the media industry in the digital age and the value of artistic work. But what about the guy that runs the recording studio? Or the guy that builds the gear that goes in the studio? Or the guy that sweeps the floors of the plant of the guy that builds the gear that goes in the studio? I wonder deeply about the trickle down effect of the loss of thousandth's of a cent of income trickling down through the economy. Of my contribution to the infinitesimally small, but persistent and pervasive devaluation of the work these people perform.

So for these big reasons, and some smaller ones (setting an example for my kids, not exposing myself or my family to the however minor, but real risk of a lawsuit, morality of intellectual property theft, etc), I'm done. I'm going legit.

I've decided it'll play out like this:

- I culled my movie library by over 50%. Got rid of everything I'll never watch again. I kept stuff that the kids or wife would howl about me deleting - I will deal with that later, but I'm not imposing my decision on them right now, even though I'm technically the curator.

- I subscribed to Rdio. Now everything I listen to via Rdio is officially legit. I don't judge the contract Rdio signed with the labels, nor the contract the labels signed with the artists - it's out of scope for me personally, and isn't something I can change. Rdio is legit, ergo so am I.

- My music library is being culled. I'm removing everything I can identify as stuff I downloaded. I legitimately own probably 6000-7000 tracks out of my 18,000, so this won't be that hard. I can add the stuff I'm removing back into Rdio, so no big loss. If I find stuff that I downloaded, but can't find in Rdio, I'll either buy it in iTunes, or if it's unavailable, it'll stay for now. I doubt there's much that will fall into this category.

- For music I want to use in my guitar study (for example, slowing down tunes to look at licks, chord progressions, etc), or for jamming to, I'll buy them in iTunes. I need the physical files to run in my software, so this is how I'll get them. I debated allowing myself to download them, since I was paying via Rdio, but Rdio is a pay-per-play model, so that didn't work.

- For movies, if I'm watching it once, I'll rent it. It's highly unlikely for me to ever want to watch a movie a second time, so even if I'm renting the same movie twice in a two or three year span, I don't see the big deal. My kids tend to watch a given movie a dozen or more times - that works out to like $1-2 a play if I purchase them. I think I can afford that. And I think it will make me (and them) more discerning about what we choose to watch.

- For TV, I don't have a solution yet. I don't watch much TV, and the only two series that interest me or my wife are Dexter and Game of Thrones currently, and those are both idle right now, so I have time to find a solution.

Maybe this will work out great, or maybe I'll be off the wagon again in 6 months. We'll have to see. But I'm going to try.

So that's where I'm at. I don't even know why I'm sharing it, except that it's been on my mind a lot lately, and I wonder if there are other people thinking along the same lines, or that have insightful thoughts to the contrary. What say you?

[Rathji]

For movies: I am pretty much weened from any questionable content. There are downloaded copies I do have for some movies where it was even remotely inconvenient to rip the copies that I own. Recent Disney movies are the prime example. I strongly feel that the initial legal ramifications from shared content will be felt with movies, which is why I have focused here. Anything newer, I tend to get on video on demand or ppv. Like you said, this content rarely gets repeated except for kids movies.

For TV, I have given up on switching from cable, the resistance from Mrs Rathji was just too great. The PVR handles most of my stuff but some series that the the family can't handle like Dexter, Breaking Bad etc are watched solely on transit, so rather than jumping through hoops to PVR>DVD>PC>tablet is just to much for multiple series at a time. My short term plans involve a homemade DVR on a simple video capture card to eliminate that hassle, but technically that's likely just as much of a copyright violation, so we'll see if it makes sense.

More later..

[Azure]

The music side is rather easy to do, and I'll probably consider doing a 100% switch in the future as well.

The $10/month is well worth it for unlimited listening, and with Pandora, Rdio, Spotify, 8tracks, and others constantly being added to the mix, there is lots of competition to have the best product out there. Rdio has had a head start in Canada by a long shot, but if Pandora ever goes legal up here, I suspect a lot of people will subscribe.

Have you considering Netflix? I'd imagine thousands of the movies you would ever consider watching are on there. Can't go wrong with that $10/month either, IN CASE you want to watch something.

TV shows are a different beast. I'm very interested as to how you will obtain Game of Thrones once it starts up again. It was the most pirated show of 2012 for a reason. HBO isn't doing themselves many favors by making it so hard for people to pay to watch it, but they're still doing well with the channel, so who knows.

I especially love the streaming music because they offer a lot of new albums every Tuesday. I have often downloaded music illegally to see if I like it enough to buy it, and with Rdio, and Pandora to a degree...there is no need for that. Just browse, listen...add/don't add to library. Simple, fast...and works great.

[Rathji]

Continued...

For music: I have yet to prune my collection of any questionable tracks, mostly because I lost all my my non CD music a come years ago, but anything new comes in from iTunes. I just switched to Android, so there were some issues with that which are currently being resolved. I tried rdio, and while the product is awesome, my music consumption really doesn't justify the cost. I am currently testing Spotify, and while it is still an issue with not being 'legally' the available here, the free product provides pretty much exactly what I need. My mobile consumption is almost all video or podcasts, so the occasional music need can be filled by my existing playlists and occasional data use to access either Google Music or Spotify.

All in all, it doesn't make sense to pirate most content in the strictest sense anymore. Some practices, like format shifting for personal use, will be in use by me for a long time, since even if I can get the DVDs for xyz series from the library or kijiji etc, I prefer to consume them on my tablet. Which means that I am technically still not 'legit', I am close enough that any moral or ethical concerns are resolved for me.

The future for me likely involves a few season passes on iTunes for some content that both my wife and I enjoy. For the stuff that is Daddy only, I can hope something comes along that nicely supports viewing in the way I like.

[PsYcNeT]

I buy Blu-rays on Amazon of collections that are awesome.

I watch Netflix for everything else (and pay an extra 6$ a month for American Netflix on a VPN which may or may not be considered legit, depending on whether or not you agree with Canadian licencing laws). As an aside, American Netflix + Hulu access means you get a lot of shows, very quick.

I rarely buy music, and just listen to playlists I've compiled on Youtube. Rarer stuff I buy on Amazon.

I buy all my games off Steam, GMG, GOG, and Origin.

I still pay for cable, but Mrs. PsYcNeT likes HGTV and I like documentaries. Also, hockey.

[kirant]

Currently I'm 21 and I've switched over to legitimate methods about 3-4 years ago.

Personally...:
- Music is petty good. I have problems with some of the smaller bands (some of which don't use iTunes or another cheap and easy legal source), but it's pretty easy to just pay and play for most music.
- Same with games. Steam is a great source, as is GOG if you like some of those (I'm amazed, but I found Panzer General 2 on there)
- Netflix and Video Unlimited generally will constitute any movies you can find. I occasionally need to hunt some down (ex - No Country for Old Men isn't in either and Canadian Netflix is generally very limited in supply), and if I want anytime access to new films, Blu-Ray is the way to go. I'm pretty picky for films, so my cost doesn't ramp much. If you're the type of person who wants to plug in different, high quality films of your choosing all the time though, I could see this being a problem.
- Cable is generally pretty limited. A few packages, but nothing large.

Going ahead, I really don't see any changes. Going "legit" is pretty easy in my view.

[pylon]

I know this makes me sound super old school. But with a Goodwill opening a few blocks from me, I have found a lot of great CD's to rip into my library there.

[FanIn80]

This is an awesome thread, and I'm completely on-board with the going legit thing. I'm a pretty busy guy, and I don't have time to watch as many movies as I used to. Besides, I enjoy the theatre experience so I see most things I want to see there anyway. Between Netflix for catalogue stuff and Apple TV for newer releases, I think it makes sense for me to go that route. There comes a point when you have to realize how much your time is worth to you, and mine is worth quite a bit to me. Having to pay 3.99-5.99 to watch a new release on my Apple TV without having to worry about software, codecs, laws, a/v quality, usenet subscriptions, etc etc - well it's a pretty good trade off for me.

The music thing is even easier. I typically buy my music already (not because of morality, but because of dissatisfaction with "scene rips" etc.), so I'm already about 85-90% compliant in that regard.

TV shows aren't that big of a deal either. I don't mind paying $1.99 every week to watch an episode of The New Girl, or The Newsroom or Game of Thrones (that's all I really watch right now). Older stuff is on Netflix too.

For me, the biggest roadblock to everything remains live sports. If they'd get rid of the bloody blackout restrictions on Center Ice and NBA League Pass, and if TSN would quit with the whole "you can only watch live CFL games on Bell devices" thing, I would never have to pay a dime for cable ever again.

That stuff really pisses me off btw. I love basketball, but Canadian coverage typically sucks so this year I bought the NBA League pass so I could watch games through my Xbox or phone or whatever. The team I'm interested in following the most this season is the Lakers, but almost every single game has been blacked out because it's being televised somewhere. I'm working late at the office, I want to watch the Lakers game while I'm there... W!T!F!

Anyway, sorry about the rant. If there was a legit way to pay for "not-subject-to-blackouts" live sports on a season-by-season basis, or even game-by-game or team-by-team etc, I would be all over that in a heartbeat.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Anyway, sorry about the rant. If there was a legit way to pay for "not-subject-to-blackouts" live sports on a season-by-season basis, or even game-by-game or team-by-team etc, I would be all over that in a heartbeat.

I subscribe to MLB at Bat and NHL Gamecenter Live because watching on my devices is my preferred method of consumption. I don't feel bad about using a VPN to circumvent the blackouts - they take my money either way, and how I configure my network should be of no consequence to them

It's going to get trickier if they start requiring mobile devices to have their GPS enabled to do location determination - I think I actually had to disable location services for the NHL Gamecenter app on my iPad, because it knew where I was regardless of the VPN endpoint I was connected to. I'm not sure if I'd resign myself to simply listening on the radio.

Overall I'm pleasantly surprised with the overall direction of this thread - I didn't want to come across as a moral crusader or do-gooder, which nobody has accused me of (yet ) and its awesome to see I'm not all alone in working through these issues/decisions.

[DownInFlames]

With services like Steam, Netflix and Rdio being legit is actually easier than pirating. I still download stuff I can't get legally (British TV shows for example) but I don't have a problem paying for stuff. In fact, I'll go out of my way to support an artist I like.

[Titan]

So does accessing us netflix count as 'legit'? (I guess it does) Also, to Pylon's point if it was originally obtained legally, is it legit? Ie. goodwill, library, garage sales, etc.? I would think so. What about 'friend' versions or someone gives you the source file?

An interesting discussion.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Titan

So does accessing us netflix count as 'legit'? Also, to Pylon's point if it was originally obtained legally, is it legit? Ie. goodwill, library, garage sales, etc.? I would think so. What about 'friend' versions or someone gives you the source file?

An interesting discussion.

- borrowing from the library is legit, ripping it once it comes home isn't.

- discarded goods would be legit, and garage sales are protected under doctrine of first sale as well (otherwise used CD stores wouldn't exist). Technically, buying a CD, ripping it, and then selling the physical copy isn't legit.

- friend versions aren't legit unless you're borrowing it with intention to return it.

Now for Netflix US, US iTunes store, etc, I don't really know. My theory is that if they will bill to a Canadian address, or allow for payment through another means like iTunes gift cards, it must be OK, since they willingly entered into the transaction with you. That's how I rationalize the MLB/NHL streaming situation - they bill me, I access the service.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

In fact, I'll go out of my way to support an artist I like.

It's a neat feeling listening to an artist on Rdio and knowing you're indirectly cutting them a (miniscule) cheque while you listen. Sorta like throwing some change in a busker's case.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

- borrowing from the library is legit, ripping it once it comes home isn't.

- discarded goods would be legit, and garage sales are protected under doctrine of first sale as well (otherwise used CD stores wouldn't exist). Technically, buying a CD, ripping it, and then selling the physical copy isn't legit.

- friend versions aren't legit unless you're borrowing it with intention to return it.

Now for Netflix US, US iTunes store, etc, I don't really know. My theory is that if they will bill to a Canadian address, or allow for payment through another means like iTunes gift cards, it must be OK, since they willingly entered into the transaction with you. That's how I rationalize the MLB/NHL streaming situation - they bill me, I access the service.

But if you buy and keep a used version can you rip it?

For friend version if you have been given it as a gift and keep it can you rip it?

I tend to see the physical version of it as the licence. If you have the cd you can rip it. If you borrow it and rip it and give it back that would seem to be not legit?

I tend to see the US version thing differently as it is an issue with the Canada gov't and not as much with the rights holders but perhaps this is not correct. I guess if I am paying for it the creator gets paid and that makes it "legit".

Another, scenario, if I were to pay for US Netflix but could not access it, and wanted to watch a show that was available on Netflix, could I download it as the creator has been paid?

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Titan

I tend to see the physical version of it as the licence. If you have the cd you can rip it. If you borrow it and rip it and give it back that would seem to be not legit?

Another, scenario, if I were to pay for US Netflix but could not access it, and wanted to watch a show that was available on Netflix, could I download it as the creator has been paid?

The first is a slippery slope for discussion in this thread, because what if you bought a DVD and circumvented copy protection to rip it for your own personal, exclusive use - technically that's illegal now in Canada (or soon will be, I believe), and has been illegal in the US for some time. Bill C-11 can/should be it's own thread, and there probably is one buried in here somewhere.

The second scenario, I personally think is not legit, and here is why I'm saying that - the entire system of non-sanctioned media distribution results in money flowing to people not entitled to receive it - everyone from bandwidth providers running the pipes, to hosting providers for the websites, to the companies making the servers that run those kinds of sites, to the people that buy advertising (explicitly or implicitly though a third party ad-serving agency) - they are all complicit in a black market economy that doesn't compensate the content creators.

I can see someone feeling justified in paying, and then obtaining it via other means, since they put their fair share in the official bucket. I can't/won't do that though, personally. Essentially, I choose not to support a black market economy, even if that means I am not supporting the artist because I can't legitimately obtain their work.

[Titan]

Interesting. I am just trying to get a sense for the boundaries you are putting around the issue.

[Rathji]

My idea for legit involves format shifting for personal use. At such time that it actually becomes illegal in Canada, I might reconsider that stance.

[QuadCityImages]

Definitely an interesting discussion.

I've never been one for downloading movies. I've probably gotten less than 10 ever, and I can think of at least 2 of those that I later bought. Not sure why I never got into that, but I do wonder if PC-connected TVs had been around back then if I would have.

Music I was big into when it was easy (Napster, early Kazaa/Morpheus) before the RIAA started seeding garbage tracks into all the services. That was one of their least stupid methods. Once iTunes and now Amazon/Google Play mp3 stuff came along, it just became easier to buy it than deal with Torrents or shady areas of the internet.

PC games used to be something I downloaded, but online multiplayer, steam sales, and generally lower prices have diminished that to almost nothing. I might get something for a 1 night lan party, but if I'm going to be playing it more than once I always buy it these days.

TV shows that are on channels I'm either paying for via Cable, or are broadcast free over the air, I basically feel no qualms finding them online to watch once. Downloading them to keep is less ok. I really miss MegaUpload and its sister MegaVideo for this, because you could pretty much type "[name of any TV show here] megavideo" into Google and find several quality copies you could stream in their flash player. Now I just curse any show that can't be legally watched on hulu, the network's website, or my cable's OnDemand service. When a TV show is impossible to legally obtain (at least right after airing) in certain countries, it does add some moral quandaries to this discussion. Not sure if Top Gear is on iTunes right after airing in the UK, but outside of that I haven't found anywhere... other than Final Gear's torrents.

[Jimmy Stang]

Interesting discussion. I have never been a downloader, and in the rare instances that I have in the past, it was for something that wasn't available for purchase/rent here. I find that I'm in the same boat as many others now: not enough time to watch all of the legally-available content anyway, and I simply can't be bothered to acquire something illegally when it is so easy to acquire legal content.

That being said, I have ripped a few of my own legally-purchased DVDs to my PC so I would watch them on disc-less devices. Technically, according to the absurd digital lock provisions that the government allowed to be included in the recent copyright law changes, means that I have broken the law. I don't believe that converting content from an old format to a new one, when legally purchased, is morally wrong.

Speaking of morals, I also "illegally" downloaded one episode of a 6-part program that my PVR didn't record properly due to an error in Shaw's guide. I even set the recording on both of my PVRs, and both didn't record the series properly. While technically illegal, I don't feel any guilt. I pay good money for cable, the error was with the provider's guide listings and not me, etc. etc. Will Shaw provide me with the replacement episode? Not a chance.

The abundance of legal options is great, but I will admit to using a DNS service to access content from US and UK Netflix. This is a grey area, obviously, but I pay Netflix who pays the content providers/creators each time I watch a program.

Live sports is the only reason I even have cable anymore, and even if there was hockey this year, I'd have a hard time watching all of the games anyway. I do enjoy English Premier League, and I subscribe to Sportsnet World Online for $25/month to get my fix. So I'm certainly not averse to paying for content. The networks and cable providers know that live sports is the only reason a lot of people hang on to traditional cable, so I wouldn't expect to blackouts, etc. to go away anytime soon. The leagues still need the big TV deals, and the cable companies need those sports to keep their subscribers. Give me an option to pay for all Flames games online with no blackouts and I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Kjesse]

Going legit is great in theory, and I've been doing that for music (more or less) ever since iTunes stopped locking their music files. This year I've spent over 400 bucks on downloaded music from them, and I've purchased their "match" service which I really like.

Now tonight, as I have lots of people coming over, suddenly my iTunes account won't work such that I can play my own ripped music (and my torrented music) but nothing bought from iTunes. I'm working to fix the account, but really I should be prepping for people coming over... and they're coming starting 8:00pm. All of my purchased music is now blocked and I can't access it as iTunes thinks I'm not the account holder. And if those music files are really DRM free why am I being asked to validate my account????

I'm pretty choked that I would not have this problem had I just downloaded those albums via torrent.