Dole Questions Kerry's Vietnam Wounds

[transplant99]

This is just getting ridiculous.

The guy was in Nam...he served his country....he was injured there on several occasions....what the hell is wrong with the Bush campaign in continuing to hammer the guy about his service record??

Dole added: "And here's, you know, a good guy, a good friend. I respect his record. But three Purple Hearts and never bled that I know of. I mean, they're all superficial wounds. Three Purple Hearts and you're out."

get over it already

[Displaced Flames fan]

Dole is part of the Bush campaign?

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by transplant99@Aug 23 2004, 12:32 AM
This is just getting ridiculous.

The guy was in Nam...he served his country....he was injured there on several occasions....what the hell is wrong with the Bush campaign in continuing to hammer the guy about his service record??

Dole added: "And here's, you know, a good guy, a good friend. I respect his record. But three Purple Hearts and never bled that I know of. I mean, they're all superficial wounds. Three Purple Hearts and you're out."

get over it already

I'm not too up on my American history but I'm sure there were dirtier elections than this with hired goons and what not in the 1800's. . . . . but I would wager this is getting to be the dirtiest election in the last 50 if not 100 years in the USA.

Do you just get the feeling this is retaliation for Michael Moore's film?

What's even more interesting is that its working in favour of Bush. I thought the opposite would be the case. And we did see earlier polls that showed Michael Moore's film, as commercially successful as it was, basically didn't blip the polls very much at all.

Cowperson

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Aug 22 2004, 08:39 PM
Dole is part of the Bush campaign?

Dunno dis...but he is a mouthpiece for the GOP...has been for ever.

Maybe i shouldnt of worded it like i did....i should say that the Bush/Cheney capaign should come right out and dismiss this stuff as nothing to do with them...and they dont.

Makes them look foolish IMO..especially when the Bush "service record" aint exactly a sparkling one itself.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by transplant99@Aug 22 2004, 06:42 PM

Makes them look foolish IMO..especially when the Bush "service record" aint exactly a sparkling one itself.

That's exactly it. Even if Kerry's Purple Hearts came from paper cuts, at least he bloody well showed up.

The "service records" of Bush and Cheney are non-existent. They can't find Bush's at all and Cheney, in his own words, "had other priorities".

I'm surprised Dole would stoop to this. He actually did his part when asked and he's paid for it ever since.

[CaptainCrunch]

Your right, but if you intend to use it as part of your campaign you need to expect to see it looked at and attacked.

So yes your right it dosen't matter if you received them from paper cuts or a game of basketball that goes wrong, but if your using it in a credibility bank in a major political campaign then the other side has the right to try and turn it around and use it against you.

Thems politics

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by transplant99+Aug 23 2004, 12:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (transplant99 @ Aug 23 2004, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@Aug 22 2004, 08:39 PM
Dole is part of the Bush campaign?

Dunno dis...but he is a mouthpiece for the GOP...has been for ever.

Maybe i shouldnt of worded it like i did....i should say that the Bush/Cheney capaign should come right out and dismiss this stuff as nothing to do with them...and they dont.

Makes them look foolish IMO..especially when the Bush "service record" aint exactly a sparkling one itself. [/b][/quote]
Oh but you're wrong.

Bush has said that this is the kind of ad that the election reform bill he signed early in his term was supposed to get rid of. He also said he has nothing to do with the ad. He has also said that Kerry has an unquestionable service record.

What more do you want? Do you want him to come out and say it's a bunch of lies?

The Kerry campaign has filed a complaint with the FEC to stop the ads (which I agree have no business running) but he is also trying to get the book pulled from shelves! Hmmm...don't recall Bush asking for any books to be pulled from shelves....in fact, he gave Woodwards book his seal of approval.

The funniest thing in all this is that the Kerry campaign wants Bush to denounce the content of the ads as junk. Where was Kerry with his defense of Bush when Moore's slanderous film came out?

It's also interesting to note that it is widely believed that Kerry used a similar group to derail Dean's campaign around the time of the Wisconsin primary. That may have come back to bite him in the ass.

[transplant99]

Oh but you're wrong.

About what?

Bush has said that this is the kind of ad that the election reform bill he signed early in his term was supposed to get rid of. He also said he has nothing to do with the ad.

From the article in question....

With Kerry taking a break from campaigning, running mate John Edwards (news - web sites) said Bush needs to tell the group to pull its ads, a step the White House and the Bush campaign refuse to take.

He needs to distance himself from this crap. He isnt. Yes he should say its a bunch of lies since its pretty clear thats exactly what these are.

The funniest thing in all this is that the Kerry campaign wants Bush to denounce the content of the ads as junk. Where was Kerry with his defense of Bush when Moore's slanderous film came out?

No idea what that has to do with this issue at all.

You know i am no democrat apologist, but this stuff is just ridiculous. The guy served his country...as did millions of others, and shouldnt be hounded because of it.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Are you kidding me with that reply? Nice way to avoid the issues I raised. Wow.

Why should Bush tell this group to pull the add? Should he also tell Nike to pull all their advertizing because Kerry likes Reboks? The President should be telling independent groups to pull adds? Unbelievable.

There is a procedure to deal with things like this. Bush already said it was supposed to be illegal under the new law. Kerry should take them to court and try to get an injunction! Why hasn't HE taken action.

Bush has actually gone farther than I would have to distance himself from the add and the group and has also said through Scott McClellan that Kerry's service record is unquestionable. What more do you want???

As for the rest of my post having nothing to do with the matter at hand.....no idea how you could come to that conclusion.

1. Kerry is accusing Bush publicly of being BEHIND the ads.

Kerry accuses Bush of using his own dirty tricks

2. Kerry seems to want Bush to come out with a grandiose statement denouncing the ads contents (which he has already done in a none grandiose manner before the ads came out).....why didn't Kerry defend Bush against the Moore movie? For instance, the part everyone loves where he sits in the classroom 'not knowing what to do'....we've seen those on the left identify this as a sign of poor leadership.



Kerry couldn't think for 42 minutes...found it.

I'll work on finding a link to support this, but I've seen it and heard it in his voice. I'll give his wife credit though...she came right out and said that criticizing Bush's reaction in the first moments after the attacks was stupid. (paraphrasing)

[transplant99]

Are you kidding me with that reply? Nice way to avoid the issues I raised. Wow.

WTF is wrong with you? Im avoiding nothing....at least about this.

The ONLY issue at hand is Dole's accusation that Kerry wasn't really hurt.

ALL im saying is that Bush SHOULD denounce the ads....and what Dole has said as a spokesman for the GOP. NOT defend kerry.

I agree Kerry should NOT engage in the same garbage...happy now?

What the hell does a Moore movie have to do with that??

Why should John Kerry defend Bush about a mockumentary (that i will point out people can choose to go see or not...i certainly havent nor ever will) that has nothing to do with John Kerry??

[Displaced Flames fan]

Didn't read the links huh?

Ok.

White House says Kerry's service record unquestionable

He's already done what you've asked Tranny.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Did Kerry condemn Terry McAullife for calling Bush a deserter on National TV? Just asking.

Same thing isn't it?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Aug 22 2004, 08:00 PM
Your right, but if you intend to use it as part of your campaign you need to expect to see it looked at and attacked.

So yes your right it dosen't matter if you received them from paper cuts or a game of basketball that goes wrong, but if your using it in a credibility bank in a major political campaign then the other side has the right to try and turn it around and use it against you.

Thems politics

I suppose the other side has a right but sheesh, Bush is so clearly outdone on this one that it all seems sort of unbelievable to me. Fight another battle ferchrissakes because this one is lost.

This tactic would not fly in the CalgaryPuck OT board so I don't see how it can work in the real world. If I, a spoiled, heavy-drinking coke-snorting slackass, called you (Captain Crunch) out and said "your military service is a bunch of crap" I'd be shouted down, and rightly so. It wouldn't even cross my mind to do such a thing because I don't/wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But here we are, listening to a spoiled, heavy-drinking, coke-snorting slackass say "yeah, he was in Viet Nam, but what did he really do, how purple are those hearts, maybe that Green Beret would have been okay anyway"? It's disgusting. Well, maybe George himself isn't saying it, but his attack dogs and Secretary of Guttersniping Karl Rove are behind it all, there is no doubt about that.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Some recent dissection of the news on both ends, courtesy of Slate.

Links to Karl Rove are present for the Swiftees, and disseminates what can and can't be back up (nothing apparently) by the group criticizing Kerry:

Swift Vets Deceptive

A similar issue - non factual information and unsubstantiated claims by Bush basher were quashed really quickly in 1999. The same can't be said for the Swiftees, who have gotten a lot of play.

Account of 1999 Bush book that got wiped out.

[EddyBeers]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Aug 23 2004, 02:51 AM
Did Kerry condemn Terry McAullife for calling Bush a deserter on National TV?

There is one major difference though, Bush was a deserter and to this day can not find a single individual who is willing to say that they served during the time that is under question regarding his noble service protecting the people of Alabama from the Viet Cong.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Aug 23 2004, 04:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Aug 23 2004, 04:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@Aug 22 2004, 08:00 PM
Your right, but if you intend to use it as part of your campaign you need to expect to see it looked at and attacked.

So yes your right it dosen't matter if you received them from paper cuts or a game of basketball that goes wrong, but if your using it in a credibility bank in a major political campaign then the other side has the right to try and turn it around and use it against you.

Thems politics

I suppose the other side has a right but sheesh, Bush is so clearly outdone on this one that it all seems sort of unbelievable to me. Fight another battle ferchrissakes because this one is lost.

This tactic would not fly in the CalgaryPuck OT board so I don't see how it can work in the real world. If I, a spoiled, heavy-drinking coke-snorting slackass, called you (Captain Crunch) out and said "your military service is a bunch of crap" I'd be shouted down, and rightly so. It wouldn't even cross my mind to do such a thing because I don't/wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But here we are, listening to a spoiled, heavy-drinking, coke-snorting slackass say "yeah, he was in Viet Nam, but what did he really do, how purple are those hearts, maybe that Green Beret would have been okay anyway"? It's disgusting. Well, maybe George himself isn't saying it, but his attack dogs and Secretary of Guttersniping Karl Rove are behind it all, there is no doubt about that. [/b][/quote]
I'm not saying I disagree with that, however if I was running for Prime Minister and I said that I was involved in Desert Storm as a fighter Pilot and bombed a Iraqi armoured column, and used that to gain some kind of collateral over my opponent, I'd damn sure better make sure that I was a fighter pilot and not a infrantry man tasked with cleaning toilets.

If Kerry's story is accurate then it serves to make his opponents look desparate if they attack it. However if it is inaccurate or exagerated then it stands to reason that his opponents have every right to jump all over it and question it. There seems to be some discrepancies that need to be sorted out on the whole thing as its seems to me that there are supporters and non supporters for his story that were involved in his time in Vietnam.

Personally I would hate to be a U.S. voter right at the moment, neither candidate is what I would call desirable, or seems to be capable of leading the last remaining Superpower.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by EddyBeers+Aug 23 2004, 05:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EddyBeers @ Aug 23 2004, 05:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@Aug 23 2004, 02:51 AM
Did Kerry condemn Terry McAullife for calling Bush a deserter on National TV?

There is one major difference though, Bush was a deserter and to this day can not find a single individual who is willing to say that they served during the time that is under question regarding his noble service protecting the people of Alabama from the Viet Cong. [/b][/quote]
Bush IS a deserter?

It's amazing what the haters will say withouth solid proof. What a joke.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Aug 23 2004, 01:46 AM
It's amazing what the haters

Word.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Aug 23 2004, 08:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Aug 23 2004, 08:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@Aug 23 2004, 01:46 AM
It's amazing what the haters

Word. [/b][/quote]
Please don't tell me that came off as...urban....

didn't want to sound that way...don't ever want to sound that way.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

The script posted on the PAC's Web site says of Bush's service in the National Guard, "When the chips were down, [he] went missing." (The posted video version is phrased differently.) Please. What Bush went missing from was a routine physical. In the National Guard, the chips were never down. That's why Bush signed up, or wormed his way in, or whatever you want to call it. He's guilty of avoiding fire, not fleeing it.

It has nothing to do with hate. I have a feeling that this whole paint Kerry with the cowards brush is moot, and distracting everyone from the real election issues, like the economy, war and education.

In other, lighter news, I wanna see dis film one of these Errol Morris (documentary director, most recently of The Fog of War , is doing....

Testimonials from Republicans

Oh, and for anyone who doesn't understand it, the NY Times cobbled together a bunch of stuff and produced a really nifty graphic.

You may have to register to see the graphic.