China- Japan "troubles"

[Knut]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...and-chain.html

China has sent 1000 fishing boats to a disputed Island Chain. Basically a Zerg Rush to see what Japan does.

This is on top of a bunch of Anti-Japan protests across China recently

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...d-islands.html

There are also warnings to Japanese, and Koreans, to close their shops and maybe even leave.

Sabre- Rattling in the region as China tries to increase it's sphere of influence.

[Bertuzzied]

Japan should just hand over the islands for what they did in Nanking. I don't think the Japanese have ever apologized or even acknowledged the rape of Nanking.

[Knut]

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/07/168715.html

Another interesting aspect of this is that these Islands fall within the US-Japan security treaty.

"The Senkakus would fall within the scope of Article 5 of the 1960 U.S.-Japan Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security because the Senkaku Islands have been under the administrative control of the government of Japan since they were returned as part of the reversion of Okinawa in 1972," the official told Kyodo News.

The treaty's Article 5 states, "Each party recognizes that an armed attack against either party in the territories under the administration of Japan would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional provisions and processes."

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Japan should just hand over the islands for what they did in Nanking. I don't think the Japanese have ever apologized or even acknowledged the rape of Nanking.

Sounds great an all. But, would that not just make China more Bold in their claims ?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Sounds great an all. But, would that not just make China more Bold in their claims ?

Sure why not? the Chinese will eventually rule the world anyways. hehe

[FlameOn]

This is one of those ambiguous areas of the world where two countries have competing claims. China traditionally owned these islands back in the pre-1890s, but the Japanese took them over during the chaos of the Chinese civil wars and unrest and Imperial Japanese expansion during the 1890-1945. US administered them for a long time and gave the islands back to Japan after during the cold war. China wants them back starting a couple of decades ago when there's potential oil reserves in the area but private Japanese interests held them until recently.

Japan didn't help the situation by nationalizing the islands a few weeks back and sending coast guard vessels. China's response is a bit extreme though with the zerg rush.

What's the precedent for situations like this? Country hasn't owned land for over a hundred years after losing it due to internal turmoil and warfare... do they still have a legitimate claim?

[Bigtime]

Then there are all the disputed islands in the South China sea, with even more countries involved.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Then there are all the disputed islands in the South China sea, with even more countries involved.

South China sea is a little more complicated than the Japanese-Chinese dispute, some of the South China sea islands are < 20km from other countries coastlines and far away from China.

[GirlySports]

and there's the Dokdo Island dispute between Japan and Korea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks

[sureLoss]

Whats the strategic importance of the islands to the respective countries? Fishing rights? Shark fin soup?

edit: oh according to wikipedia the ownership question intensified when the UN discovered oil and natural gas reserves near the islands

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Whats the strategic importance of the islands to the respective countries? Fishing rights? Shark fin soup?

Sub-ocean floor oil deposits.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Japan should just hand over the islands for what they did in Nanking. I don't think the Japanese have ever apologized or even acknowledged the rape of Nanking.

I've never really understood the need for a current generation apologizing for the actions of a previous one.

[Ozy_Flame]

Don't forget the Kuril Islands dispute between Japan and Russia.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Japan should just hand over the islands for what they did in Nanking. I don't think the Japanese have ever apologized or even acknowledged the rape of Nanking.

I believe they did in the mid '90's.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I've never really understood the need for a current generation apologizing for the actions of a previous one.

I agree with this assessment, but the difference is Japan actively tries to prevent the current generation from learning about it's past mistakes by messing around with history taught in classes as it's an embarrassing part of their past.

This was not done in countries like Germany

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Don't forget the Kuril Islands dispute between Japan and Russia.

Really this is a result of poorly thought out treaties at the end of WWII. It would have been better if all of Imperial Japan's lands that were gained through conquest were returned to their respective countries after the war, but the US need a strong buttress against Communism in the area and Japan was going to be that country. They had to appease them to some degree.

[SeeBass]

The Japanese ambasador to China has died cause unknow.

On the streets of Tokyo

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I've never really understood the need for a current generation apologizing for the actions of a previous one.

They don't but they rarely mention that in their history books and downplay the numbers of the people massacred.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

I agree with this assessment, but the difference is Japan actively tries to prevent the current generation from learning about it's past mistakes by messing around with history taught in classes as it's an embarrassing part of their past.

This was not done in countries like Germany

What was Italy's approach?

BTW, I agree with your thoughts about their need to say sorry.

However, I don't think it needs to occurr in all situations.

[Kavvy]

My thoughts, with the understanding I really know nothing about how the Chinese government is really run (aka these are my assumptions):

Does anyone else think this could (very unlikely, if the perfect storm occurred) be the downfall of the current Chinese regime? China doesn’t want to attack Japan; however, Chinese power is partly kept due to fear and nationalism. If the government appears weak to their citizens, in front of the rival Japan, they may have cracks in their power, including military dissidents.

If Japan refuses to back down, this may only leave 2 options, 1, attack any Japanese ship or military in the area of the islands and take the chance the USA respond to their geographically military importance ally, and the possibility of the 3rd world war, or 2, don’t attack and have the possibility of a coup when the people and military demand the weak government step aside, which could attack Japan anyway.

The people are upset, the military is run on nationalism, and they might not have a choice if the heads of state doesn’t want to be refugees in their own nation.