Is it too early in the season to build a fence?

[Sliver]

I have a guy lined up to build a fence for me starting Monday. I'm worried the ground may not have thawed enough yet, but with the mild winter maybe that isn't a problem. Anybody have any insight here? Will the concrete in the post holes set properly right now?

[Caged Great]

The ground might be frozen still, but it will be doable, just a huge huge pain in the ass.

[Sliver]

Well as long as I don't have a crappier fence because it's being done early. It won't be my pain in the ass.

[allicat]

A friend of mine built his fence (I believe he hired out the post holes to be dug) a week or two ago. You should be okay. Digging the post holes (from what I gather, I don't build fences) seems to be the biggest part of the job.

[worth]

I have a buddy in concrete and he says he won't be pouring until the end of the month because the ground is still frozen, but as long as you don't mind digging frozen ground, it shouldn't be a problem. If you wait a couple weeks it might make your life a lot easier though.

[surferguy]

I just asked my brother who owns a environmental drilling company and he has assured me that frost is out of the ground in the Calgary area. Furthermore with the weather headed the direction it is for next week the concrete curing shouldn't be an issue.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Will the concrete in the post holes set properly right now?

That would be my concern. A bobcat can drill through the frost alright, but if the ground is still below 0 degrees that concrete won't set properly.

Something I have seen the city do- put charcoal (or something) down the hole to warm up the ground. Myself, I would maybe have him dig the holes, then come back in a week to put in the posts.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by allicat

A friend of mine built his fence (I believe he hired out the post holes to be dug) a week or two ago. You should be okay. Digging the post holes (from what I gather, I don't build fences) seems to be the biggest part of the job.

I've put in a couple fences, and the auguring of the holes is the hardest part (which is actually extremely easy as long as you don't hit clay, and even then it's more just putting your weight into it)

Everything else is really basic, just putting boards together and mixing cement. Big deal.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by ken0042

That would be my concern. A bobcat can drill through the frost alright, but if the ground is still below 0 degrees that concrete won't set properly.

Something I have seen the city do- put charcoal (or something) down the hole to warm up the ground. Myself, I would maybe have him dig the holes, then come back in a week to put in the posts.

I could totally handle that, but the fence is going up between my house (where you could basically eat off the ground of my backyard we keep it so anally clean) and my neighbour's yard, where there is a mess of junk and dog crap. The fence blew down in November and we've been waiting impatiently ever since to put the new one up. There is no way I could get my wife to wait a week longer on this so based on the other responses I'm going to go ahead.

Thanks a lot everyone, that really puts my mind at ease.

[FlamingHomer]

Make sure you move before you need to replace the posts. Once cemented they tend to rot quickly at the base and they aren't fun to replace. Think jackhammer. I never cement mine. I backfill with large rocks. You can still dig them out, they last longer because of no concrete which escalates rotting and the rocks still hold the post in place quite well.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by FlamingHomer

Make sure you move before you need to replace the posts. Once cemented they tend to rot quickly at the base and they aren't fun to replace. Think jackhammer. I never cement mine. I backfill with large rocks. You can still dig them out, they last longer because of no concrete which escalates rotting and the rocks still hold the post in place quite well.

It'll take more than one random post on a messageboard to convince me that using large rocks to fill post holes builds a fence sturdier than using concrete in the post holes.

Treated 4x4s 3 or 4' deep with concrete should last longer than most people live in a house. How many fences have you lived through, FH?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by FlamingHomer

Make sure you move before you need to replace the posts. Once cemented they tend to rot quickly at the base and they aren't fun to replace. Think jackhammer. I never cement mine. I backfill with large rocks. You can still dig them out, they last longer because of no concrete which escalates rotting and the rocks still hold the post in place quite well.

Or put 6-8 inches of gravel at the bottom of the hole to allow water to flow through, rather than pool inside the concrete as it runs down the fence post.

That said, you don't need to concrete posts it unless the fence will face direct wind. In my days landscaping I pulled up far more fences without concrete posts than with, most of which seemed to have held fine for many years. Since in this case, the original fence fell due to wind, I am guessing that concrete is the best bet.

[Caged Great]

Plus by concreting them in, they are less prone to shifting. The neighbour's fence is warped terribly. Ours though is still as straight as it was when we first put it in 10 years ago.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by 4X4

It'll take more than one random post on a messageboard to convince me that using large rocks to fill post holes builds a fence sturdier than using concrete in the post holes.

Treated 4x4s 3 or 4' deep with concrete should last longer than most people live in a house. How many fences have you lived through, FH?

I've built several fences, and I actually agree that a post in concrete will cause it to degrade faster. It's not complicated, water gets trapped in between the post and the concrete and stays there, the freeze/thaw cycle serves to drive the water and minerals into the post and also tends to prevent it from drying out.

Having said that, putting a good bed of gravel before you poor the concrete helps. It is also a really smart idea to use 4x6 posts instead of 4x4 they last much longer and resist warping far better. I built a fence about 4 years ago and did use concrete because there is a slop on one side of the fence, and the soil there tends to move and erode to an extent so I was not confident the posts would stay put if I only used gravel and soil. But if you are running a fence on mostly level ground, then IMO it is better not to use concrete, but if you do this, you must absolutely pack the ground properly under the post, and pack the ground around the post aggressively, and go at least 3 feet down. If you don't, the posts will probably drift and become crooked over the years.

I can't stress enough, use 4x6 posts the extra cost is well worth it.

[Sr. Mints]

When my mom put in a fence ~15 years ago, she opted to put in steel posts instead of cedar posts. Not sure how she attached them to the wood fence, but the fence still looked great last time I saw it before she moved.

[zamler]

How do you go about cutting a steel post? I'm no expert on fence building but I found it impossible to dig the holes and place the posts so there were exactly the same height and level. Instead I left a few inches, then used a laser level to mark them, and cut them, giving me perfectly straight and level tops.

I also stained the posts dark brown to go with my white panels (consisting of plywood and a frame I didn't use fence boards) something I can't do with a steel post. It's a great option though if you want them to last, it will take forever for them to degrade to the point where you will care.

[Sr. Mints]

^^^I made it sound as though she built it with her own hands, but that's not the case: she had it built--someone who knew what they were doing put the posts in and leveled them.

There must be a way to do it, though... when steel posts for chain link fences are put in they are either cut or put in leveled.

[Rathji]

Chain link you use a pipe cutter, a fairly trivial thing to do. I have never seen metal posts used for a wooden privacy fence, I assume they are square, or how does that work?

[zamler]

I was thinking of square posts, round ones to me don't look great I like to have at least 4x4 posts. The round posts yea a pipe cutter makes short work of them, easier than cutting a wooden post I had to make a jig to do it so the posts were cut off squared. I know they make hollow square metal posts I've seen them before, but I second that, never seen metal used along with wood, have seen composite posts used with wood though.

Off topic a bit, but does anyone know a good place to buy quality lattice? The stuff I put in was crap from the get go, cedar but the staples they used didn't stay in and pieces starting falling off, now I have to replace it all.

[Sr. Mints]

Nope, not square. They were circular.