High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I think she did an absolute pitiful job explaining the situation on Twitter, but when you read her account of what happened, it does appear to be exploitative in nature if true.

Remember she attended Franco's acting school, which promised to use his productions as a way of advancing their careers. This put him in a position of power, like many teacher-student and boss-employee situations.

http://www.latimes.com/business/holl...htmlstory.html



While there have been accusations of rape against Weinstein now, the initial allegations by the likes of Ashley Judd was him inviting young actresses to meetings, which ended up being in his hotel room, where he would try to convince them to have sex or massage him with the promise of advancing their careers (or stopping their careers if they didn't). It was about using his position and power to pressure women into doing something they did not want to do. Arguably, based on Tither-Kaplan account of what happened, Franco wasn't much different in that regard.

but didn't hockeyboy said that it what Franco did would be ok with women because he's hot? it's only bad if fat ugly men do it.

gee. surprise that theory was shot to heck so soon. lol


Seal had a good comment/meme about Oprah the other day after so many people were gushing over her.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8153791.html

basically branded her a hypocrite for her speech as she herself did nothing.

he has a good point. Oprah is a billionaire and extremely powerful. She of all people could have done something and all she did was chase public adoration and the almighty dollar.

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

but didn't hockeyboy said that it what Franco did would be ok with women because he's hot? it's only bad if fat ugly men do it.

gee. surprise that theory was shot to heck so soon. lol


Seal had a good comment/meme about Oprah the other day after so many people were gushing over her.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8153791.html

basically branded her a hypocrite for her speech as she herself did nothing.

he has a good point. Oprah is a billionaire and extremely powerful. She of all people could have done something and all she did was chase public adoration and the almighty dollar.

I agree, any sort of abuse of power such as this is unacceptable and trading sex for promises of career advancement is a diplorable thing for someone to do in any field of work. No matter who it is and I don't really give a darn about my theory not holding up to every example because at the end of the day I think innapropriate abuses of power shouldn't be tolerated such as this and I'm glad it has been outed.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

but didn't hockeyboy said that it what Franco did would be ok with women because he's hot? it's only bad if fat ugly men do it.

gee. surprise that theory was shot to heck so soon. lol


Seal had a good comment/meme about Oprah the other day after so many people were gushing over her.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8153791.html

basically branded her a hypocrite for her speech as she herself did nothing.

he has a good point. Oprah is a billionaire and extremely powerful. She of all people could have done something and all she did was chase public adoration and the almighty dollar.

I mentioned this earlier in that a lot of these actresses had advanced their careers to the point they had enough money and reputation to come out earlier and yet didn't speak up until there was sufficient momentum where they felt they could not damage their careers. Nobody really comes out of this clean as the industry is still built on the foundation of greed, power, and narcissism.

[DiracSpike]

Yeah it's been really disheartening to see pics of Oprah and Streep smiling big ol smiles with weinstein.

The real heroes of this story aren't a bunch of self serving presenters at award shows, they're unheralded journalists and actresses that never got famous because they cared more about exposing these dirtbags than career advancement.

[troutman]

I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life

https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355


The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari
Allegations against the comedian are proof that women are angry, temporarily powerful—and very, very dangerous.

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/arti...mpression=true

[White Out 403]

The Aziz story is ridiculous. She blew him. It was easier for her to blow him than say no? Wtf?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by troutman

I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355


The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari

Allegations against the comedian are proof that women are angry, temporarily powerful—and very, very dangerous.

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/arti...mpression=true

From the Atlantic article:

And what she and the writer who told her story created was 3,000 words of revenge porn.The clinical detail in which the story is told is intended not to validate her account as much as it is to hurt and humiliate Ansari.

I’d say that about sums it up.

[corporatejay]

Stories like that Aziz one are going to be the ultimate downfall of this movement.

I thought it would take a little longer for the hit squad of privileged young white women to open fire on brown-skinned men. I had assumed that, on the basis of intersectionality and all that, they’d stay laser focused on college-educated white men for another few months. But we’re at warp speed now, and the revolution—in many ways so good and so important—is starting to sweep up all sorts of people into its conflagration: the monstrous, the cruel, and the simply unlucky. Apparently there is a whole country full of young women who don’t know how to call a cab, and who have spent a lot of time picking out pretty outfits for dates they hoped would be nights to remember. They’re angry and temporarily powerful and last night they destroyed a man who didn’t deserve it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...ansari/550541/

[Winsor_Pilates]

I would be terrified to be famous right now. Like the Aziz story shows, you're one bad date from the past away from being labeled an abuser.

The real abusers and blamed for the sake of shame are all being lumped together now and that's very dangerous.

[CliffFletcher]

When even Margaret Atwood is under fire, you know the movement has jumped the tracks.

Am I a bad feminist?

My fundamental position is that women are human beings, with the full range of saintly and demonic behaviours this entails, including criminal ones. They're not angels, incapable of wrongdoing. If they were, we wouldn't need a legal system...

Furthermore, I believe that in order to have civil and human rights for women there have to be civil and human rights, period, including the right to fundamental justice, just as for women to have the vote, there has to be a vote. Do Good Feminists believe that only women should have such rights? Surely not. That would be to flip the coin on the old state of affairs in which only men had such rights...

This structure – guilty because accused – has applied in many more episodes in human history than Salem. It tends to kick in during the "Terror and Virtue" phase of revolutions – something has gone wrong, and there must be a purge, as in the French Revolution, Stalin's purges in the USSR, the Red Guard period in China, the reign of the Generals in Argentina and the early days of the Iranian Revolution. The list is long and Left and Right have both indulged. Before "Terror and Virtue" is over, a great many have fallen by the wayside. Note that I am not saying that there are no traitors or whatever the target group may be; simply that in such times, the usual rules of evidence are bypassed...

If the legal system is bypassed because it is seen as ineffectual, what will take its place? Who will be the new power brokers? It won't be the Bad Feminists like me. We are acceptable neither to Right nor to Left. In times of extremes, extremists win. Their ideology becomes a religion, anyone who doesn't puppet their views is seen as an apostate, a heretic or a traitor, and moderates in the middle are annihilated. Fiction writers are particularly suspect because they write about human beings, and people are morally ambiguous. The aim of ideology is to eliminate ambiguity...

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I would be terrified to be famous right now. Like the Aziz story shows, you're one bad date from the past away from being labeled an abuser.

The real abusers and blamed for the sake of shame are all being lumped together now and that's very dangerous.

Almost to the point where maybe celebrities will have to draw up contracts to be signed before any physical interaction with the opposite sex.

[Northendzone]

I read a comment where seal was suggesting that oprah was a hypocrite when she delivered her golden globe speech. the article showed meme's of oprah giving Harvey a kiss on the cheek with the caption "when you have been part of the problem for decades" and then oprah sitting with reese w (I think) and Harvey is in the upper corner of the picture with the caption "but suddenly they all think you are the solution"

I think at the end of the day, many Hollywood types knew which folks in town were part of the all hands team, and which were not - but everybody was afraid to stand up.

my guess is that this may change to some extent, but will still go on to some extent as people could justify doing something one time in exchange for money and fame.

as an aside, I'd be curious to know if any of this type of stuff goes on in the adult film industry, or if it is different due to the personalities and the work that needs to be done in that industry.

and as an aside, oprah for president - hopefully America has learned something from this celebrity president

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I read a comment where seal was suggesting that oprah was a hypocrite when she delivered her golden globe speech. the article showed meme's of oprah giving Harvey a kiss on the cheek with the caption "when you have been part of the problem for decades" and then oprah sitting with reese w (I think) and Harvey is in the upper corner of the picture with the caption "but suddenly they all think you are the solution"

I think at the end of the day, many Hollywood types knew which folks in town were part of the all hands team, and which were not - but everybody was afraid to stand up.

my guess is that this may change to some extent, but will still go on to some extent as people could justify doing something one time in exchange for money and fame.

as an aside, I'd be curious to know if any of this type of stuff goes on in the adult film industry, or if it is different due to the personalities and the work that needs to be done in that industry.

and as an aside, oprah for president - hopefully America has learned something from this celebrity president

Oprah for president? So essentially replacing the king of narcissism and grandiosity with the in the queen of narcissism and grandiosity? Sounds like something Americans would actually do.

[81MC]

For what it's worth, I feel like I'd be a pretty good date, if "the claw" and grabbing a condom after 5 minutes is 'normal'. That aside, a tale like that of Aziz has to be getting pretty close to crossing a legal line, no? At what point does outing abusive behaviour turn into outing bad dates, and go from justice to defamation?

[Hockeyboy2]

The last two stories identify that there are two different issue going on here, I am also glad that this has been articulated so well by people on the last two pages.

1. Abuses of power such as the James Franco story, clearly abuses of power from anyone is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. I personally think trading or imposing sexual favors on women or men for future career success is appalling.

2. Women who condemn men for stepping outside their preconceived zone of being. For example this woman went on a date with Aziz Ansari who lets be honest is not "lover" category but rather "provider" or comical funny "friend". Women do not want to do sexual things with men that they are unsure about on the first date, even if they do indeed act there is always a little voice in the back of their heads saying "hey this isn't quite right because I'm not that attracted to this man". These women then leave the encounter feeling regret for what happened. With the climate the way it is right now, these women now have a platform to lash out at men for doing things consensually with these men that they are not that attracted too. Aziz was simply trying to act as a lover when this woman clearly did not perceive him as a lover.

I am so glad that a lot of people have disagreed with me over my original post because it has brought a lot of good discussion, it was something that needed to be brought up especially given the contrast between the last two stories, one of James Franco (abuse of power) and one of Aziz Ansari (Not sure what to label it as yet).

Someone who vehemently disagreed with my original post did say that I nailed it when I replied that abuses of power against these women are unacceptable and I am glad he said that because yes on that issue that is exactly correct.

The unfortunate story shared about Aziz Ansari though definitely speaks to what I was talking about in my post though. You can agree or disagree its all good, I just think whether you do agree or disagree this is a part of this important topic that should be discussed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Stories like that Aziz one are going to be the ultimate downfall of this movement.



https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...ansari/550541/

Well there are a few things that are going to destroy a needed movement.

1) Stuff like the Aziz story, as more and more people come out people are going to start asking if this is real, or revenge.

2) Celebrities piggy backing on this, making it about them and using it to drive their image, how many celebrities are wearing the pins and muttering the sayings, but don't really care one way or another. But they look good doing it

3) the short attention span syndrome. Hollywood will move on and the press will start ignoring it, as probably most of the really big names have been outted. There was a really sad one with Eliza Dushhu who opened up about getting molested as a 12 year old on the set of true lies by a stunt man. But stories like this will start getting lost in the backwash of the next great celebrity cause.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

2. Women who condemn men for stepping outside their preconceived zone of being. For example this woman went on a date with Aziz Ansari who lets be honest is not "lover" category but rather "provider" or comical funny "friend".

Please use the correct MRA nomenclature of "Alpha", "Beta", "Gamma" and "Omega" please. MGTOWs have to stand as a unified movement.

"Chads" and "Stacis" are acceptable as well.

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Please use the correct MRA nomenclature of "Alpha", "Beta", "Gamma" and "Omega" please. MGTOWs have to stand as a unified movement.

"Chads" and "Stacis" are acceptable as well.

Clearly I need more study before I can go full MRA. What is an MGTOW (Nah not looking that up either).

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well there are a few things that are going to destroy a needed movement.

1) Stuff like the Aziz story, as more and more people come out people are going to start asking if this is real, or revenge.

2) Celebrities piggy backing on this, making it about them and using it to drive their image, how many celebrities are wearing the pins and muttering the sayings, but don't really care one way or another. But they look good doing it

3) the short attention span syndrome. Hollywood will move on and the press will start ignoring it, as probably most of the really big names have been outted. There was a really sad one with Eliza Dushhu who opened up about getting molested as a 12 year old on the set of true lies by a stunt man. But stories like this will start getting lost in the backwash of the next great celebrity cause.

I like these points and have questions.

1. What are the chances of Aziz Ansari successfully filing and gaining monetary compensation in a libel monetary damages in a civil case?

2. I believe many celebrities are piggy backing and are supporting this issue although they do not believe in it in order to gain attention. How do you filter out this though? I think in Hollywood there are actors, and actors who are acting for the best benefit of themselves.

3. The individual who molested Eliza Dushku should be tried in the court and labelled a pedophile if found guilty. I would like to know your thoughts on whether Jamie Lee Curtis should have spearheaded this and supported Eliza Dushku when she originally told her this in confidence, because I think she totally have done that?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

I like these points and have questions.

1. What are the chances of Aziz Ansari successfully filing and gaining monetary compensation in a libel monetary damages in a civil case? Sorry if I got legal jargon mixed up.

Don't know, not a lawyer, and its probably not worth suing her anyways and dragging this out. The smart move is to let what's happening happening, which is she's getting racked across the coals by the same establishment (news) that has jumped whole heartedly on other cases of men abusing woman. If I was Aziz I would double down with saying, I apologized, I felt bad that I didn't understand her non verbal signals. Leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

2. I believe many celebrities are piggy backing and are supporting this issue although they do not believe in it in order to gain attention. How do you filter out this though? I think in Hollywood there are actors, and actors who are acting for the best benefit of themselves.

They're all working for the best benefit of themselves. The only way that there is any filter out is if these celebrities, men and woman get caught doing the very thing that they are crying out against. Ie Streep or Oprah get caught on camera drunkenly calling a police officer "Suger %%%%".

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

3. The individual who molested Eliza Dushku should be tried in the court and labelled a pedophile if found guilty. I would like to know your thoughts on whether Jamie Lee Curtis should have spearheaded this and supported Eliza Dushku when she originally told her this in confidence?

this might sound scornful, but whatever. But Jamie Lee Curtis should have come forward or worked with Eliza to come forward and supported her openly. This is a 12 year old girl being harmed. To me Jamie Lee talking about talking a motherly role on the set rings as a bit hypocritical. And depending on when Eliza confided in her, it might have been before the ability to prosecute had expired.

Sadly instead, it reads like those terrible cases of child molestation where the other parents doesn't believe the child or ignores it.

To me and my cynic alert badge is flashing, Jamie Lee's co-opt piece is pure and simple spin. If she had been a "Mother" when Eliza confided in her, she should have gone to the police or Eliza's parents or anything.

She might have saved Dushka years of self medication and pain.