Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The supposed strength of the team is chocked full of self-inflicted wounds from the back end. We saw it yesterday with the Dougie's constant parade to the penalty box. That's 3 straight games with a minor penalty and currently, he sits atop the throne as the undisputed minor penalty king of this team.

Brodie with his turnovers. He and Hamonic just aren't good enough defensively to cover up for all these mistakes. By now, I think it's pretty obvious that Tre gambled and lost the trade for Hamonic by not protecting the pick. A lot of character in that guy, but when you couple the increased expectations along with his average defense and below average offensive production, the value just hasn't been there to justify a potential lottery debacle.

Been quite unimpressed with Stone as well. We gave up a 3rd and a 5th for him and I figured he'd be a force back there playing against easier competition. But his lack of mobility and the -10 he's sporting just hasn't been good enough either.

Not saying the defense has been the team's biggest problem this season. But it certainly has certainly contributed to our lackluster performances. Outside of Giordano, who's an absolute rock for this team in every possibly way imaginable. I'm not sure I'd be sad if any of the other guys were traded to fill holes elsewhere.

Agreed, for a team that has been built on defense, the only guy I would feel even remotely comfortable being on the ice in the last minute is Giordano. the other guys are all soft and/or weak defensively. this team is constructed poorly.

[genetic_phreek]

BT has failed miserably on all fronts in the last year. I get the fact you go out and get Hamonic but having him and Stone was a poor decision. I don't mind having either but not both.

Secondly I said this before trade deadline, we were sitting on the bubble and you can't stay status quo, you have to make moves for the playoffs push our for the future, Tre did neither. I would have preferred him sell guys while their values are higher and recoup picks ie Brodie, Ferland, Stone, etc.

Now he's handcuffed the team for the next couple years unless he can unload some guys during off season. This d core is not good enough on defense, although putting up decent offense stats. Our forward group is terribly unstable. If you can't be good defensively, be good offensively. Most guys are neither.

This is tough to take. Time for BT to go.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

BT has failed miserably on all fronts in the last year. I get the fact you go out and get Hamonic but having him and Stone was a poor decision. I don't mind having either but not both.

Secondly I said this before trade deadline, we were sitting on the bubble and you can't stay status quo, you have to make moves for the playoffs push our for the future, Tre did neither. I would have preferred him sell guys while their values are higher and recoup picks ie Brodie, Ferland, Stone, etc.

Now he's handcuffed the team for the next couple years unless he can unload some guys during off season. This d core is not good enough on defense, although putting up decent offense stats. Our forward group is terribly unstable. If you can't be good defensively, be good offensively. Most guys are neither.

This is tough to take. Time for BT to go.

Only thing I will say he did not fail at was getting mike smith.

[dammage79]

I'm starting to feel like Trelivings head is on the.block.too. I don't want him fired but I just feel like there was a mandate set by ownership and the failure is a death blow.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'm starting to feel like Trelivings head is on the.block.too. I don't want him fired but I just feel like there was a mandate set by ownership and the failure is a death blow.

of course he should be, if BT was the GM of the Leafs/Habs/Nucks and he traded those unprotected picks for Hamonic and the team missing the playoffs he would've been chased out of town.

[atb]

What’s especially tough is how off the board Treliving went with GG. If he’d brought in Boudreau or McLellan and had this type of result, you could at least say he tried to get a guy with a solid track record. There was nothing to suggest GG was a good coach and feels like a massive letdown compared to how we see saw the team play under Hartley.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'm starting to feel like Trelivings head is on the.block.too. I don't want him fired but I just feel like there was a mandate set by ownership and the failure is a death blow.

Only reason they won’t is because they are in cost saving mode and with his contract extension last year firing him will likely cost more than missing the playoffs did.

I’m assuming it was a 3-year extension so my guess is he gets one more year at Least...the bigger worry should be if he’s allowed to fire a coach who still has term left.

[TheOnlyBilko]

I wouldn't feel so bad about Calgary missing the playoffs if we had our 1st round lottery pick. The lottery and the draft is fun for the fans that miss the playoffs. This draft has 4 impact players. If New York gets a top 4 pick from Calgary I'm gonna puke especially Dahlin or Svechnikov

[TheOnlyBilko]

Don't trade anymore 1st round draft picks ever again. I can't remember Calgary really ever coming out ahead, like where it was worth while when we traded our 1st round pick.

[TheOnlyBilko]

Originally Posted by Hackey

. A mid first round pick likely isn't going to decide the fate of this organization moving forward.

Kinda hard to say this until the lottery actually happen. Philly moved up to the 2nd overall pick last year and New Jersey moved up to the #1 overall pick last year, so anything can happen ad there are a couple real potential franchise players in this draft. A few players who will make an instant impact next year.

[Flamenfame]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think they need two forward upgrades.
My ideal off-season trade is Bennett+Brodie for Galchyenyuk + Gallagher.

Montreal would not touch that their best 2 forwards for a busting C and imo overrated dman , would not happen

[Dajazz]

Well, most people including myself are identifying lack of depth scoring and the coach as the two main problems. Both are on BT.

What if we don't trade for Hamonic and one OR two of Gio, Hamilton, Brodie or Stone goes down? Everyone OK with Kulak and/or Bartkowski in the top four?

Not signing Stone wouldn't make a difference on our ability to add scoring, so that point is moot.

It's not an easy to position to be in. If we knew what we had in Valimaki, Andersson or Kylington - even Fox, it would be a totally different story. We could have traded for scoring help or recover picks/prospects to help the forward prospect pool.

I

[N-E-B]

I look at it as the Flames drafted an already developed top-4 NHL defenseman on a good contract with their 1st this year, which will likely be a mid-round pick. Hamonic helps the team now and in the future. This wasn't a rental.

Chances are without Hamonic the Flames would have a different record and finish in a different position, which means that even if the Islanders win the lottery with our pick it's highly unlikely the Flames would also have won had they kept the pick.

I totally understand the frustration and disappointment, but I don't think not having a 1st is as big a deal as some of you are making it out to be. It just makes the draft less interesting.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I look at it as the Flames drafted an already developed top-4 NHL defenseman on a good contract with their 1st this year, which will likely be a mid-round pick. Hamonic helps the team now and in the future. This wasn't a rental.

Chances are without Hamonic the Flames would have a different record and finish in a different position, which means that even if the Islanders win the lottery with our pick it's highly unlikely the Flames would also have won had they kept the pick.

I totally understand the frustration and disappointment, but I don't think not having a 1st is as big a deal as some of you are making it out to be. It just makes the draft less interesting.

I suppose this opinion might change down the road by a few years when the hamonic return isn't just 3 draft picks but rather 3 actual prospects/players. However, depending on the drafted players, the 3 players eventually picked could easily be worth WAY more than what value hamonic provides.

It's basically a Kessel-lite trade. Kessel was a much more impactful and better player but the draft pick returns were just painful (seguin/Hamilton).

Looking back, each of the individual assets selected with those picks traded away by burke are worth equal to or more than Kessel.

Trading unprotected 1st rounders before a season has started is a stupid idea given that you are trading unknown value. For a team that barely squeaked into the playoffs the year before to make such a trade is even dumber.

To me this trade is a fireable mistake of treliving. I fear that opinion will only get stronger once we can put names to the assets given away.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I look at it as the Flames drafted an already developed top-4 NHL defenseman on a good contract with their 1st this year, which will likely be a mid-round pick. Hamonic helps the team now and in the future. This wasn't a rental.

Chances are without Hamonic the Flames would have a different record and finish in a different position, which means that even if the Islanders win the lottery with our pick it's highly unlikely the Flames would also have won had they kept the pick.

I totally understand the frustration and disappointment, but I don't think not having a 1st is as big a deal as some of you are making it out to be. It just makes the draft less interesting.

The biggest grip I and most others would have is the premium price paid for Hamonic actually been nothing short of a failure so far. Hamonic was expected to be a stable 2nd pairing guy who would help bring Brodie back to form. Can't pin the latter all on Hamonic but all we've got is a disaster of a 2nd pair with many of Hamonic's flaws coming to light like poor gap control and allowing more shots despite being a "defensive defenseman".

It's pretty easy to say how the picks could become stars or been used better in a 'grass is greener' situation. The reality is the defense is a bit of a mess outside of Gio and maybe Hamilton's offense.

[N-E-B]

I see where you guys are coming from, I just don't agree that it's that big of a blunder. Defenseman are expensive. Hamonic hasn't been great this year, but he's still been a serviceable #4 and those aren't cheap. Given his contract is very good, that just increases the price.

Had Hamonic been acquired at the deadline last year as a rental I would agree with you, but they paid the premium because they get him for longer than a few months to a year.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by Anduril

The biggest grip I and most others would have is the premium price paid for Hamonic actually been nothing short of a failure so far. Hamonic was expected to be a stable 2nd pairing guy who would help bring Brodie back to form. Can't pin the latter all on Hamonic but all we've got is a disaster of a 2nd pair with many of Hamonic's flaws coming to light like poor gap control and allowing more shots despite being a "defensive defenseman".

It's pretty easy to say how the picks could become stars or been used better in a 'grass is greener' situation. The reality is the defense is a bit of a mess outside of Gio and maybe Hamilton's offense.

Considering he was and still is under contract, a good one, as well as his age (and expected prime) it is good value. Expensive, heck yea, but Top 4 D costs a LOT.

The fact that BT completely fleeced Boston in the Hamilton trade probably sets the wrong expectations.

Look at what established defensemen have fetched in the last few years (and how rarely they are on the block). When Brendan Smith gets you a 2nd and a 3rd you know that the Hamonic deal is OK. Or Russell, a second and two "prospects".

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Chances are without Hamonic the Flames would have a different record and finish in a different position, which means that even if the Islanders win the lottery with our pick it's highly unlikely the Flames would also have won had they kept the pick.

Thing is wihout Hamonic the Flames would have worse record, than with him. Hence, the pick would be even higher, rather than lower. So if Islanders would pick, say, 8th, you could argue that without making Hamonic Flames would have likely picked about 6th.

Same way, if Islanders win the lottery, than Flames odds of winning the lottery would be even higher.

Unless, of course, you believe that the Flames could finish higher without Hamonic. But in this case, the trade looks even worse.

[Erick Estrada]

Treliving is lucky he just got a new contract or he would likely be shown the door as he has the distinction of commandeering arguably one of the worst seasons in the history of the franchise. Yes there's been Flames teams in the 90's that were build with duct tape and dime store bargain players and the tear down a few years back but given the results vs the expectations and almost an entire draft traded this has to be one of the biggest debacles in franchise history. This team isn't even going to match the Brent Sutter teams in points that was an over the hill veteran team on the decline and to make matters worse the hockey most nights has been unwatchable even when they were winning. I feel really bad for Flames employees tasked with selling season tickets as it seems a Glengarry Glen Ross depressing job.

[habernac]

Jiri, even Bergevin isn't stupid enough to trade their two top scorers for Flames fodder.