Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[peter12]

Originally Posted by polak

So Alberta recovery is actually never coming....

Of course it will.

[peter12]

Honestly, if the Trudeau government gets EE and TMEP in the ground, then they will have won my vote for a considerable time.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by peter12

Honestly, if the Trudeau government gets EE and TMEP in the ground, then they will have won my vote for a considerable time.

The Basis of my vote for Kent Hehr was that he told me straight up that they would be working to get the pipelines approved.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by polak

So Alberta recovery is actually never coming....

We probably won't see the same level of investment, especially in the oilsands, that we saw from 2005 to 2015. So it's best to regard that era as an anomaly, rather the norm. But the province will almost certainly be doing better in five years than it is now.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by peter12

Honestly, if the Trudeau government gets EE and TMEP in the ground, then they will have won my vote for a considerable time.

Even if it means policies that include overspending and massive debt's?

Liberals: We must save the environment for our children, but we're going to make a debt that our children will have to pay off.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Even if it means policies that include overspending and massive debt's.

Liberals: We must save the environment for our children, but we're going to make a debt that our children will have to pay off.

Nostalgia for what?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

While its great that they are finally realizing it, but the fact they could not see how important it was from the get go tells us a lot about their capability of understanding basic economics.

The conservatives may have not always had popular policies but at least they were grounded in reality and tackled problems with a pragmatic approach.

Let's see

Climate change denial
Mandatory minimums
Banning foreign investment on O+G
Long Form Census
The whole science portfolio.

I don't think the conservatives were pragmatic about anything. They purely played to their base. About the only thing they softened on was putting a limit on income splitting and income trusts. They routinely behaved partisanly and without any consultation of data.

Id also say that the provincial NDP and liberals were pro Energy East and Transmountain as part of their platforms. No one believed them but their actions on the portfolio match their election commitments.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Even if it means policies that include overspending and massive debt's?

Liberals: We must save the environment for our children, but we're going to make a debt that our children will have to pay off.

Given the choice I would take pipelines and debt as opposed to no pipelines and debt. Seems like an easy decision for me.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by peter12

Honestly, if the Trudeau government gets EE and TMEP in the ground, then they will have won my vote for a considerable time.

Why? Because the global market has changed is in a different state from when the conservatives tried? The conservatives KNEW these lines were required to diversify the consumer base of our energy products and tried to push them ahead before a global oil glut.

Only now because we are seeing the physical implications of a low commodity price (AND having to sell it at a discount due to lack of market access) that the public 'gets on board' with projects like this and the liberals are the heros?

Sure the conservatives share some blame for not properly educating the public on the necessity of these projects but it still doesn't change the fact they actually had the foresight to try and get it done before it would become a worse problem. I will vote for the party that actually speaks to what is needed and not what the public wants, because in reality the public isn't all that smart.

This only furthers my point I had in my earlier post that while their policies were not 'popular' they were grounded in reality.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Slava

Given the choice I would take pipelines and debt as opposed to no pipelines and debt. Seems like an easy decision for me.

How about pipelines and no debt. Liberals need to stop treating debt like it's not a big deal before I would ever consider a vote for them. We're going to be paying a massive amount into debt servicing and eventually drop our credit rating. That's probably why they realized they need pipelines to pay for their overspending.

The government can't say Canadians have too much debt and are concerned about what happens when interest rates go up when they aren't leading by example.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

How about pipelines and no debt. Liberals need to stop treating debt like it's not a big deal before I would ever consider a vote for them. We're going to be paying a massive amount into debt servicing and eventually drop our credit rating. That's probably why they realized they need pipelines to pay for their overspending.

The government can't say Canadians have too much debt and are concerned about what happens when interest rates go up when they aren't leading by example.

Well, the CPC didn't exactly lead by example, so I am not sure what alternative you would like at this precise point in time?

[Slava]

Point is we were getting debt with the former government as well. This is hardly a partisan issue in the western world because no one seems to be able to balance the budget. Its pretty much been SOP for the boomer generation to pass that debt along, regardless of country and regardless of political party.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by GGG

Let's see

Climate change denial
Mandatory minimums
Banning foreign investment on O+G
Long Form Census
The whole science portfolio.

I don't think the conservatives were pragmatic about anything. They purely played to their base. About the only thing they softened on was putting a limit on income splitting and income trusts. They routinely behaved partisanly and without any consultation of data.

Id also say that the provincial NDP and liberals were pro Energy East and Transmountain as part of their platforms. No one believed them but their actions on the portfolio match their election commitments.

Climate Change denial? No consultation of data? Look at Canada's GHG production relative other countries. We are not the problem. Can we make further progress? Absolutely, but to sell the farm and handicap our biggest industry which drives the rest of the country in order to do so at a faster pace of other countries that are worse polluters is illogical.

Banning of foreign investment? They simply implemented rules so that foreign companies couldn't come into Canada for O&G resources that would put Canada at a loss. They wanted any foreign purchase to be of a net benefit to Canada.

While I disagree with a few things the conservatives did but as I do with ANY political party, politics is basically choosing the least of all evils. And clearly we have a different view of what evil entails.

[_Q_]

But if Trudeau is to get pipelines built, how is that inferior to the 10 years of dilly dallying and lip service that we had to endure under Harper?

[Tacopuck]

Well the libs and NDP weren't exactly helping the conservatives during their bid to get pipelines built, but the moment it's their problem they are all for it.

Do you see conservatives now trying to derail the libs and NDP with their effort to get the pipelines built, no you dont, because they know its needed, and have for awhile.

[peter12]

Well, Harper had a majority government, so morally, and technically, the Opposition was doing its job by ... opposing government policy.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

Well the libs and NDP weren't exactly helping the conservatives during their bid to get pipelines built, but the moment it's their problem they are all for it.

I don't get it... Didn't the Conservatives have a majority government for most of the last decade? I'm not sure how exactly Harper's magnificent energy strategy was blocked by the liberals or NDP. As far as I know, the liberals have also always been pro pipeline.

Having our Prime Minister make energy his #1 priority is definitely a step in the right direction for this country. I wish the Conservatives had done that rather than focusing on fighting ISIS, niqab and the "tough on crime" bills.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, Harper had a majority government, so morally, and technically, the Opposition was doing its job by ... opposing government policy.

There is absolutely nothing that says the opposition has to oppose every policy.

It's their responsibility to debate and make sure the government is operating in good faith and call them out when not but to say they have to oppose everything unequivocally is untrue.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I don't get it... Didn't the Conservatives have a majority government for most of the last decade? I'm not sure how exactly Harper's magnificent energy strategy was blocked by the liberals or NDP. As far as I know, the liberals have also always been pro pipeline.

Having our Prime Minister make energy his #1 priority is definitely a step in the right direction for this country. I wish the Conservatives had done that rather than focusing on fighting ISIS, niqab and the "tough on crime" bills.

Well as we have seen today public discourse and approval is critical for projects like this. The liberals and NDP opposing and fighting pipelines bringing large media coverage, making them a public spectacle, and influencing public opinion based on partisanship beliefs and not facts.

[Slava]

^ Do you have a single example of the Harper government trying to get a pipeline through and the others opposing it, causing them to fail? Revisionist history.