BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Fixed that for you.

You're right, this is a central factor, but it is not in opposition to the factor I presented.

[CliffFletcher]

It’s becoming evident that the carrot-only approach to opioid addiction is no more effective than the stick-only approach.

“Here’s treatment and services if you want them - but if you don’t that’s cool too” is a futile strategy when voluntary rates of treatment are under 10 per cent.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s becoming evident that the carrot-only approach to opioid addiction is no more effective than the stick-only approach.

*citation needed

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

The firemen showed up in 5-10 minutes and gave him a drug that awoke him instantly. They had a pretty nonchalant attitude about it. I asked if he would be okay, and they replied he'd probably be ODing again soon. The man refused a hospital visit. All they could do was give him info about resources and let him go on his way.

The last time I did my First Aid re-certification, the paramedic teaching the course ran us through the process of doing that. He said it's pretty dangerous because sometimes when they wake up, they get angry and violent because you just ruined their high. He said he was once attacked because the guy they just saved accused him of stealing his foil. The first thing he does now is locates their foil and places it close to them so they can see it when they come to.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

You're right, this is a central factor, but it is not in opposition to the factor I presented.

You're probably right when it comes to drinking and smoking weed in public. I think you'd see a dramatic reduction of public consumption of crack, heroin, etc., if we did a better job of housing people.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You're probably right when it comes to drinking and smoking weed in public. I think you'd see a dramatic reduction of public consumption of crack, heroin, etc., if we did a better job of housing people.

I wasn't trying to suggest that we would reduce opiate abuse by enforcing harsher penalties. What I was suggesting is we are seeing ( in he literal sense) more because there is less policing. I could have been more clear, policing opiate addiction makes it a private problem, rather than a public one. I think that the number of non functioning addicts is relatively stable over time.


Either way, folks will be ####ing themselves up with Opiates no matter what the law says. The question at hand is how much burden would like like to put on firefighters, nurses, EMS, and people who like to use public transit.

Like I said earlier, the worst thing about addicts is they think they're only hurting themselves.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I wasn't trying to suggest that we would reduce opiate abuse by enforcing harsher penalties. What I was suggesting is we are seeing ( in he literal sense) more because there is less policing. I could have been more clear, policing opiate addiction makes it a private problem, rather than a public one. I think that the number of non functioning addicts is relatively stable over time.

Either way, folks will be ####ing themselves up with Opiates no matter what the law says. The question at hand is how much burden would like like to put on firefighters, nurses, EMS, and people who like to use public transit.

Like I said earlier, the worst thing about addicts is they think they're only hurting themselves.

The problem is how can you criminalize behaviour that is almost always comorbid with things like homelessness, PTSD, mood disorders, etc., when we don't have the infrastructure in place to treat those issues?

There have been suggestions from Cliff and others that people should be forced into treatment, which just demonstrates complete ignorance of how barren the infrastructure and support is in that sector due to decades of cuts and deregulation.

The chickens from late-stage capitalism, neoliberalism, and austerity politics are coming home to roost, and this is what it looks like.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You're probably right when it comes to drinking and smoking weed in public. I think you'd see a dramatic reduction of public consumption of crack, heroin, etc., if we did a better job of housing people.

I wonder how much of an increase there would be in overdose deaths if usage dramatically shifted from public consumption to at home consumption? At least with public consumption there is a chance that an overdose can be reported and treated while at home the visibility of an overdose is low to non existent.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The problem is how can you criminalize behaviour that is almost always comorbid with things like homelessness, PTSD, mood disorders, etc., when we don't have the infrastructure in place to treat those issues?

There have been suggestions from Cliff and others that people should be forced into treatment, which just demonstrates complete ignorance of how barren the infrastructure and support is in that sector due to decades of cuts and deregulation.

The chickens from late-stage capitalism, neoliberalism, and austerity politics are coming home to roost, and this is what it looks like.

I disagree that the bolded is the root of the problem. If you search opium in Peels Prairie Province, it will show you that the problem with opiate addiction is long standing. This is a not a modern problem, it is ancient problem in a modern context.

http://peel.library.ualberta.ca/newspapers/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I disagree that the bolded is the root of the problem. If you search opium in peel prairie province, it will show you that the problem with opiate addiction is long standing. This is a not a modern problem, it is ancient problem in a modern context.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the lack of support services, etc., are a direct result of these policies and ideologies.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I wonder how much of an increase there would be in overdose deaths if usage dramatically shifted from public consumption to at home consumption? At least with public consumption there is a chance that an overdose can be reported and treated while at home the visibility of an overdose is low to non existent.

Yes, this is a major consideration. You'd hope with the combination of housing, safe supply, and a higher number of safe consumption sites, better access to treatment, etc., that many of these deaths can be mitigated. Obviously there is no silver bullet that will reduce OD deaths to zero.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

*citation needed

The fact addiction and its attendant social ills are getting worse in every jurisdiction where a hands-off harm reduction approach is being practiced.

It’s good that different jurisdictions try different approaches things. It allows us to assess what works and what doesn’t. But public policy wonks aren’t flocking to Seattle, Vancouver, San Fransisco, and Portland to take notes on how to effectively tackle the opioid crisis.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The fact addiction and its attendant social ills are getting worse in every jurisdiction where a hands-off harm reduction approach is being practiced.

Come on, Cliff. You ought to know I'm going to call you on your really egregious logical fallacies by now.

It’s good that different jurisdictions try different approaches things. It allows us to assess what works and what doesn’t. But public policy wonks aren’t flocking to Seattle, Vancouver, San Fransisco, and Portland to take notes on how to effectively tackle the opioid crisis.

First, how do you know this?

Second, most public policy wonks aren't dumb enough to draw conclusions on policy measures that have been in place for less than five years + have a whole host of insane, mitigating circumstances that have affected their implementation and efficacy (e.g. housing crisis, toxic drug supply, global pandemic, etc.).

[gallione11]

Oregon is basically repealing Measure 110 (decriminalizing drug possession) later this year as it failed miserably. But, as Rube mentioned, a big point of failure here was that treatment services were sorely lacking and of course, homelessness and the pandemic as well. Mayor has said if he had control and had to do it over, the state should have built up the behavioral assistance and treatment centers first, and then start to decriminalize possession.


I don't go downtown much -- maybe 1-2 times a year -- so I don't have first hand experience with the conditions lately, but I've heard it got pretty bad. I'm grateful I finished my degree at Portland State (total downtown campus) in 2015 so I didn't have to.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The chickens from late-stage capitalism, neoliberalism, and austerity politics are coming home to roost, and this is what it looks like.

What austerity? Every province in Canada and the Canadian federal government is spending massive deficits and has racked up massive amounts of debt. We're already taxing the rich on income at levels well over half on the marginal dollar in pretty much every jurisdiction and lopping on sales taxes that in the 10-15%+ range and there's still huge health care needs being unmet. There actually isn't a huge untapped money pot to throw cash at every issue.

BC specifically is spending a record deficit in 2024-2025 of nearly $8 billion

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

What austerity? Every province in Canada and the Canadian federal government is spending massive deficits and has racked up massive amounts of debt. We're already taxing the rich on income at levels well over half on the marginal dollar in pretty much every jurisdiction and lopping on sales taxes that in the 10-15%+ range and there's still huge health care needs being unmet. There actually isn't a huge untapped money pot to throw cash at every issue.

Taxes are about as low as they have ever been, particularly for the wealthy. This has led to an ever lower level of spending(deficits are due to lower than needed income, not too much spending) on many things we rely on, causing crisis issues all over.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Taxes are about as low as they have ever been, particularly for the wealthy. This has led to an ever lower level of spending(deficits are due to lower than needed income, not too much spending) on many things we rely on, causing crisis issues all over.

That's completely false. Our income brackets (Especially considering they are in Canadian dollars) are vastly lower than virtually all 50 states and the marginal rates are vastly higher. Combine sales taxes on top of that and there isn't a huge potential to tax higher without seeing a lot of people leave the country. The answer to our social problems are not tax more / spend more because we don't have the capacity to do that much more.

[TheIronMaiden]

I think that at some point, blaming society and polices hits a limitation.
There is still personal accountability. Though everyone gets delt circumstances ( good and bad) that are out of their control, sometimes people #### up their own lives, or do not make the best of their situation. In life, it is good to get help, but you have to be your own first responder.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

That's completely false. Our income brackets (Especially considering they are in Canadian dollars) are vastly lower than virtually all 50 states and the marginal rates are vastly higher. Combine sales taxes on top of that and there isn't a huge potential to tax higher without seeing a lot of people leave the country. The answer to our social problems are not tax more / spend more because we don't have the capacity to do that much more.

First off, what do States have to do with this, second...



https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...tax-rates.html

But if you do want to compare to other jurisdictions...




You are misinformed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

That's completely false. Our income brackets (Especially considering they are in Canadian dollars) are vastly lower than virtually all 50 states and the marginal rates are vastly higher. Combine sales taxes on top of that and there isn't a huge potential to tax higher without seeing a lot of people leave the country. The answer to our social problems are not tax more / spend more because we don't have the capacity to do that much more.

I have been telling you people this for years.

I told you all! We need to depose the Canadian Government in a violent and bloody coup and then, once I'm installed as Leader for Eternity we start planning and then, once we're ready....

Canada invades Panama! We drain all those off-shore accounts and set up the best Health Care anywhere in the world!

They'll never see it coming!

And we shall call it...."Operation: Panamaniacs!"

What are they going to do? Throw bespoke cotton suits and ridiculous hats at us?

And then we set our sights on the rest of those off-shore Tax Havens and drain them too!!

Because as a University Professor once told me: "The best money in the World....is other people's!"