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Old 01-25-2023, 05:26 PM   #201
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In Middle Eastern cultures they will just take justice out on you in the form of a beating and more. You don't have mountains of meth heads running around raping girls and attacking random people on the street.
The majority of middle eastern countries are now facing a serious amphetamine problem.

Globally drug use, at least seems, to be on the rise.
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Old 01-25-2023, 05:28 PM   #202
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Hm...an abundance of under-employed individuals with aggression issues and housing concerns and an ongoing war in Ukraine?

Fellas...we just may have two circumstances on our hands that could potentially help solve each other.
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Old 01-25-2023, 05:29 PM   #203
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Hm...an abundance of under-employed individuals with aggression issues and housing concerns and an ongoing war in Ukraine?

Fellas...we just may have two circumstances on our hands that could potentially help solve each other.

Time to merge the threads! I'm on it!
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Old 01-25-2023, 05:30 PM   #204
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But, it seems rather clear this is cultural issue and I tend to agree part of that is too much compassion as a society.
This is an absurd conclusion, though, considering nothing about our response or societyís treatment of homeless people and addicts indicates an abundance of compassion. If anything, itís a half-hearted attempt at showing compassion. ďWeĒ are acting in a way we believe compassionate people act, which is incredibly different than acting with an abundance of compassion. If we had too much compassion, we likely would not have this problem, because we would have funnelled actual resources into fixing it.

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I dont get what's so hard to understand about the fact that trying to get clean when you live underneath a bridge by the river is exponentially harder than trying to get sober with a predictable living situation. If our goal is to get people clean,we need to give them a place to live as a baseline before anything else because that lifestyle naturally leads itself towards maintaining the drug addict status quo. If you have nothing to live for, no place to stay, why WOULDNT you just do drugs to numb yourself from your awful existence
Iím surprised a few posters arenít understanding this. This fantasy of rounding up all the homeless addicts and arresting and imprisoning them or ďethically forcibly confiningĒ them to a mental institution and then just forcing them to be fixed or die in prison or get beat to death by the police or something is cool and all if thatís the road people want to go down, but how is any of that remotely conducive to actually curing addiction? Why would they bother?

Sliverís big issue is actually seeing these people, heís repeated it several times. Alleviating their HOMELESSNESS solves the immediate issue. You can alleviate their homelessness by giving them a home. A crazy concept, Iím sure. Then, for those who are also suffering from addiction or mental health issues or a combination, you offer treatments (as many on site or near site as possible). For those who arenít or are no longer suffering from addiction or mental health issues, you work with them on transitional employment to get them back on their own two feet and eventually to a place where they donít need government housing. The idea isnít to give them mansions, just places to live that are safe and comfortable, but places they will eventually want to move on from. For those who simply refuse to engage in the program at all, then thereís nothing inhumane about increasing the legal consequences for remaining homeless or addicts. But you have to wrap it all together.

The people complaining the loudest in this thread donít seem to want comprehensive solutions. They want punishments, or to fix it while saving a buck, but iím not seeing a lot of interest in actually solving the issue in a way that makes sense from the main complainers. They just want to try a slightly different half-measure, which history tells us is not going to work. Finland, Portugal, Japan, Denmark, there are different examples of effective approaches to the issue, none of them half measures, none of them as lazy as just opening up more mental institutions, all of them with a ways to go yet but still far ahead of where we are.

Another problem is that people view this as a political or ideological debate/issue, when itís not. As soon as you blame the ďotherĒ group for not solving this, you lose 100% of your credibility. Part of the reason this doesnít get solved is BECAUSE people politicize it. So stop being part of the problem.
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Old 01-25-2023, 06:46 PM   #205
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So we are on the same page, youre saying they once had a home pre addiction, got addicted to drugs and lost their home, so that's proof they dont need housing before addressing addiction? That's my understanding of your point anyways, please feel free to ecludiate me if I'm misinterpreting you

Can you answer the question in the original post that you quoted, ie how much harder would it be to get sober while homeless vs having a place to live

I dont get what's so hard to understand about the fact that trying to get clean when you live underneath a bridge by the river is exponentially harder than trying to get sober with a predictable living situation. If our goal is to get people clean,we need to give them a place to live as a baseline before anything else because that lifestyle naturally leads itself towards maintaining the drug addict status quo. If you have nothing to live for, no place to stay, why WOULDNT you just do drugs to numb yourself from your awful existence
Why is it that those that have housing and addictions generally need to attend a privately run rehab centre to successfully kick their addiction yet it’s thought all that homeless need is a house, and a weekly meeting with an addictions counselor? It’s more complex than that.

Yes of course it’s impossible from living in a tent under a bridge. It’s also not that possible for many without ultimate measures. You can’t just give them a home and say now that you have a place don’t go do meth tonight. They need detox and a regularly administered prescription substitute to flip their situation from “must get today’s drug hit at all costs” to “I don’t need it anymore to exist and I can pursue greater things”.

I don’t think anyone’s angle is round people living on the streets up in vans and ship them to some draconian facility. You provide them the option. Those who want to get clean (with consistent warm meals, showers and a bed) will take the option. Those that don’t, you can’t really expect great success with those people.

If they’re arrested for criminal behaviour while under the influence of a narcotic they are admitted.

Watch the documentary Hemi posted and see what they’re doing in Rhode Island.

Last edited by topfiverecords; 01-25-2023 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 01-25-2023, 06:50 PM   #206
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Can we at least start with the decade long addicts with violent crime histories and at least agree to get them off the street and away from society by any means required ? Or is even that debatable until they push your loved one onto the VLt tracks and assault your teenager coming home from school ?
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Old 01-25-2023, 06:54 PM   #207
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One dude who I never even looked at or anything got right up in my face and said "wanna see if my bark is as bad as my bite?". He only had one tooth, it took everything I had to not make a crack about it, RE: his bite. He was only about 5'7" too and by himself, and I was with my buddy who's 6'3" and looks rough. Like what is he thinking??

He had these wild eyes and looked like he was twitching. I've noticed most of em I've had encounters with are like that. Is it a new street drug or something that makes you want to fight everybody? I thought that was just whisky..
The irrationality of these people has lately, definitely, gone up. I live and work downtown and see it all the time. Most of these people are just brainstems at this point, searching out drugs and money for drugs and lashing out in unpredictable ways. That's why they're homeless, not because the price of eggs are up. Three of my coworkers randomly were assaulted last year, one guy was tackled on the train station and was lucky he didn't fall on to the tracks. I've walked women coworkers to their cars and the station until their train showed up and I don't know how they walk around on their own I'd be terrified of these addicts if I was them. While we're doling out compassion how about some for the normal tax paying productive citizens of this city, mainly women, that shouldn't have to put up with being terrorized by the dregs of society.
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:04 PM   #208
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Do we need to infantilize women? Just because you decided to walk someone to their train doesnít make it dangerous. Talk about fear-mongering.
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:12 PM   #209
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Do we need to infantilize women? Just because you decided to walk someone to their train doesnít make it dangerous. Talk about fear-mongering.
I don't think it's infantilizing them. Men are stronger than women, so women are at a physical disadvantage in the event of a confrontation. There is also the risk of sexual assault, which I would assume would be a greater danger for a woman than a man. I think it would be irresponsible to let a woman wait at the train station alone.

Is my thinking outdated or 'white knightish' on this? I actually always kind of look out for women in these situations and view it as a responsibility of being a big dude.
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:16 PM   #210
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If a smaller male asked a stronger / larger women to walk them to the train station it would be the same , however this scenario is much rarer . Either way , other then message board political correctness BS , how is ANYONE being afraid to be at a train station or walk by themself “fear mongering “?

And I worked at a company where anybody could request the building security to accompany them to their vehicles in the company parking lot no where near inner city . And it was always women who made the request . And there’s nothing wrong with that. If anything potentially more men should ask for people to walk with them and pairs always offer more safety

Hell I can take care of myself and there’s zero chance I would be caught alone after certain times on the LRT in Calgary .
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:24 PM   #211
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Fear mongering if you think some nefarious mountain of meth head rapists are lurking around the corner of the Ctrain station waiting for a woman.
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:29 PM   #212
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Fear mongering if you think some nefarious mountain of meth head rapists are lurking around the corner of the Ctrain station waiting for a woman.
Don't want my sister/daughter/wife taking the chance, do you?
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:31 PM   #213
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Why is it that those that have housing and addictions generally need to attend a privately run rehab centre to successfully kick their addiction yet itís thought all that homeless need is a house, and a weekly meeting with an addictions counselor? Itís more complex than that.

Yes of course itís impossible from living in a tent under a bridge. Itís also not that possible for many without ultimate measures. You canít just give them a home and say now that you have a place donít go do meth tonight. They need detox and a regularly administered prescription substitute to flip their situation from ďmust get todayís drug hit at all costsĒ to ďI donít need it anymore to exist and I can pursue greater thingsĒ.

I donít think anyoneís angle is round people living on the streets up in vans and ship them to some draconian facility. You provide them the option. Those who want to get clean (with consistent warm meals, showers and a bed) will take the option. Those that donít, you canít really expect great success with those people.

If theyíre arrested for criminal behaviour while under the influence of a narcotic they are admitted.

Watch the documentary Hemi posted and see what theyíre doing in Rhode Island.
Great, we need to give them all that extra support as well. My appologies if I made it seem that housing alone would be enough. It's not. But its the first step is definitely a place to live
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:43 PM   #214
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Don't want my sister/daughter/wife taking the chance, do you?
I do,

Risks should be reasonably assessed. You child is far more likely to be assaulted by a relative, teacher, coach or other trusted adult than Meth addict at a C-train station. Rapists in most cases are known to their assailants.

So I want my loved ones to take reasonable precautions based on real risks and not perceived risks.

If you had to rate the risks of an evening going to a bar drinking I suspect that more people are assaulted both men and women by people they meet in the bar then meth heads they encounter taking the train home.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:03 PM   #215
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Don't want my sister/daughter/wife taking the chance, do you?

Besides what GGG said, I donít see how treating all of the women in your life like theyíre incapable of taking care of themselves helps them. Itís just contributing to paranoia.

Theyíre more likely to be groped by some totally sober creeper on the train itself than by somebody just trying to get high in peace.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:04 PM   #216
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I have literally read it all now on this message board - having a meth head with a 10 year criminal history pushing women into the LRT tracks or assaulting them is now an acceptable risk vs ….. getting this person out of society ?

My brain is literally exploding reading some posts in this thread
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:06 PM   #217
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Besides what GGG said, I don’t see how treating all of the women in your life like they’re incapable of taking care of themselves helps them. It’s just contributing to paranoia.

They’re more likely to be groped by some totally sober creeper on the train itself than by somebody just trying to get high in peace.
No one is concerned about the person getting high in peace ! Why it that so hard to understand . Violent crimes / assaults by drug addicts is increasing at an exponential risk

No one is worried about the opioid homeless guy asleep in the corner

It’s the 10 year meth addict who’s brain is literally mush attacking their random demons who are actually random people
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:10 PM   #218
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Don't want my sister/daughter/wife taking the chance, do you?
Sister's a nurse and wife is a EMS supervisor

I think they're used to it
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:20 PM   #219
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I have literally read it all now on this message board - having a meth head with a 10 year criminal history pushing women into the LRT tracks or assaulting them is now an acceptable risk vs Ö.. getting this person out of society ?

My brain is literally exploding reading some posts in this thread
Itís stunning to me what weíve just come to accept as normal. IĎbe been walking into a coffee shop for a coffee in the middle of the week and had guys screaming at me in the parking lot. I can handle myself, although Iím not a big guy at all. Itís unnerving though, to say the least.

The reality is, these kinds of people live by different rules. And while I might be in favour of rehabilitation/treatment/etc., none of that matters.

The idea that we should just brush this off and have such a carefree attitude is so bizarre.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:22 PM   #220
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I have literally read it all now on this message board - having a meth head with a 10 year criminal history pushing women into the LRT tracks or assaulting them is now an acceptable risk vs Ö.. getting this person out of society ?

My brain is literally exploding reading some posts in this thread
If itíll make you stop repeating the same scenario and acting like people owe it to you to address it, sure, we can arrest that one type of person, like we already do. Everyone agrees. Cool? You good?
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