The Democratic Presidential Nomination 2020

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Don't be so sure. Trump is giving out money.

Like I mentioned above, what's happening now is that the government is going to reimburse uninsured COVID treatments. That's healthcare. This is test to see if it can work or will the greedy system break down. In the end it might be a Black Swan.

Biden has totally dismissed single payer. Even in this crisis.

If you’re saying people think Trumps plan of shutting down ACA without another plan, is better than whatever Biden has(not shutting it down), then I overestimated the American public.

[photon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Democrats just need to make sure people actually vote (easier said then done) lots of people thought Hillary had it in the bag and didn't bother voting.

Well she did get more votes than any non-black president in history, but it needs to be even more.

I think Sanders could have won if when he was surging if he'd moved to the middle a bit, said while he will maintain his goals and views he knows as president he'll sometimes have to go for the incremental win or take the more moderate things that are available..

If course then he wouldn't be who he is if he'd gone that way.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I feel like people drove by this to give you the benefit of the doubt the first time, but are you actually suggesting that this is a reasonable argument? I don't even know what to say. The goal is to get as many votes as possible. Obviously Biden will position himself to try to secure people who aren't left wing, be they independents, swing voters, moderate republicans or people who generally don't pay much attention to politics until shortly before a presidential election. But the more people from the left side of the democratic base he can get to show up on election day, the better... obviously. Some of these states will be close, even in the best case scenario, so trying to get as many people as possible in as many plausible "might vote for the Democratic candidate" categories as possible is the right way to go. Broad appeal that's just deep enough to get you to go pull a lever, so to speak.

Nah, my point was that the strategy of campaigning for the moderate Republican vote in a manner that causes the progressive wing of the party to stay home is super dumb.

So far, the Biden campaign's strategy seems to be to belittle and harangue progressives for their votes instead of making some concessions towards that wing of the party. Good luck with that.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Kind of depends how bad things get, doesn't it? If it truly becomes a horror show - as it might - then they should absolutely be focusing primarily on the immediate crisis.

Sure, if it got really bad. But as I see it:

The projections and models are getting better every day. So right now, I don't see the doomsday scenario that some were predicting. Not to minimize what is happening in NYC, which is an utter tragedy.

And at this point, no one, Biden included, is overly loud about different actions the government should be taking.

What could be an issue is if the federal government tries to rollback restrictions too soon, and Biden is articulate in coming out against that. But that would be a risky political strategy that could blow up in your face.

IMO the Dems need to win this election based on all the pre Covid19 issues.

[CliffFletcher]

Even if Biden intended to carry out the exact same policies as the Trump Republican administration in every respect except supreme court appointments, that alone would be so crucial of a difference that every progressive with a shred of civic engagement should feel duty bound to vote for Biden.

[fulham]

2012 Biden wins this easily... 2020 Biden will struggle to even be competitive in the debates, as his public speaking abilities have disintegrated. He also is now in a democratic party where a lot of the extremists(AOC supporters) see him as a villain who stole Bernies last chance.

[dino7c]

nobody cares about the debates...they should but they don't and its not like Trump is a master debater

"no you are" and "you'd be in jail"

Biden didn't steal anything...he won an election fair and square

The irony of people saying Biden can't get the vote out when he just kicked all the other dem candidates ass in multiple primary elections

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Even if Biden intended to carry out the exact same policies as the Trump Republican administration in every respect except supreme court appointments, that alone would be so crucial of a difference that every progressive with a shred of civic engagement should feel duty bound to vote for Biden.

Again, why is it always put upon progressives to save the day in these areas when their voices clearly aren't valued anywhere else?

I can agree that this is really not a good election to take a stand, but progressives have been getting told to fall in line for the greater good since as long as I can remember and they largely have dick all to show for it. During this cycle the establishment haven't even tried to hide the complete contempt they have for that wing of the party. I can completely understand why they're not wanting to play ball anymore.

Biden isn't entitled to the progressive vote just because he's not Donald Trump, especially if he's more interested in making an ill-advised play for Republican voters than he is with bridging the divide within his own party.

[nik-]

Then they can not vote and lose, and be worse off than they would have been with Biden.

Their candidate lost, what do they want people to do?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

Then they can not vote and lose, and be worse off than they would have been with Biden.

Aren't they technically losing either way? The argument is just that one loss is going to hurt more than the other.

Does the SC spot even matter as long as The GOP controls the Senate? McConnell isn't going to approve anyone that Biden nominates.

[rubecube]

Either way, the moderate wing of the DNC not making any concessions to the progressive wing and opting to just vilify them for potentially handing Trump a victory is just as dumb and petty as progressives staying home. Both approaches end with Trump back in the White House.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Aren't they technically losing either way? The argument is just that one loss is going to hurt more than the other.

Does the SC spot even matter as long as The GOP controls the Senate? McConnell isn't going to approve anyone that Biden nominates.

There's losing and then there's getting less than you want. It's clear one path is losing.

Given the current situation, the fact that this is even debate is ridiculous imo.

[dino7c]

The loudest Bernie supporters are in states that are in the bag or not even Americans and can't vote anyway

Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Nebraska's 2nd district

These are the states that matter

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Either way, the moderate wing of the DNC not making any concessions to the progressive wing and opting to just vilify them for potentially handing Trump a victory is just as dumb and petty as progressives staying home. Both approaches end with Trump back in the White House.

Yeah, I'm sure the progressive wing never does any vilifying of the rest of the party, they are always trying to build unity and never accuse anyone who isn't 100% in lockstep with Bernie's policies of being a quasi-Republican...

...speaking of that, photon kinda mentioned this, but this tweet after Bernie won Nevada aged rather poorly, and it spoke to Bernie's unwillingness to try and coalition build.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1231021453270769664

The notion that it was the DNC alone that was expecting others to fall in line also ignores that this was literally the Bernie campaign's strategy. This article from April last year has the Bernie campaign spelling out that it intended to win the nomination with a plurality around 30%, not a majority, and that a fractured field with his hardcore base was the path to victory.

The senator from Vermont’s pitch is a mix of idealism and a shouting anger about the system, but at its heart is a hard-nosed math: He’s the only candidate with a sizable chunk of the electorate that won’t waver, no matter what, so a field that keeps growing and splitting support keeps making things easier.

He’s counting on winning Iowa and New Hampshire, where he was already surprisingly strong in 2016, and hoping that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris will split the black electorate in South Carolina and give him a path to slip through there, too. And then, Sanders aides believe, he’ll easily win enough delegates to put him into contention at the convention. They say they don’t need him to get more than 30 percent to make that happen.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...l-2020/587326/

And that second paragraph really sums up why he lost. He kept thinking he could win with minimal black support, that he could ride his hardcore, but capped at ~ 30% base to victory, while completely ignoring who the Democratic base really is. If this cycle has taught us anything (although I think we all knew this anyway) it's that Iowa and New Hampshire should be removed as the first states to vote. Winning the nomination without black support is basically impossible. South Carolina might not be the best representation of the Dem base (somewhere like New York is probably better), but it's significantly closer to what it is than Iowa and New Hampshire and their combined 14 black people.

In the end the party platform is more progressive now because of Bernie, even if it's not 100% his platform. And even if Biden literally ran on Bernie's platform verbatim the progressive wing would whine that if you're just running Bernie's platform, why not just nominate Bernie? I know I keep saying Twitter isn't really life, but Twitter is where the hardcore Bernie or Bust people are, and that's pretty much how they look at it. At some point you just gotta take your chances they understand the magnitude of this election, that if they ever want an AOC or whoever they deem a true progressive in the White House, having a SC that isn't going to overturn every piece of legislation they pass is pretty damn important.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

nobody cares about the debates...they should but they don't and its not like Trump is a master debater

"no you are" and "you'd be in jail"

Biden didn't steal anything...he won an election fair and square

The irony of people saying Biden can't get the vote out when he just kicked all the other dem candidates ass in multiple primary elections

no puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet.

appealing to Americas best and brightest

[GGG]

I think the combination of New Hampshire, Iowa, South Carolina, and Nevada represent the US outside of major metro areas. This is intentional as the major metro area have such a big affect on outcomes no matter what. It’s actually a pretty reasonable way of getting smaller states and demographics represented before the big states go.

[PsYcNeT]

So I assume if Bernie or a Bernie type had secured the nom, all of the moderates would have been told to suck it up and vote for them?

Because frankly, I would see a lot of them voting Republican in that instance, especially if they were being harangued by progressives.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So I assume if Bernie or a Bernie type had secured the nom, all of the moderates would have been told to suck it up and vote for them?
.

Yes. The stakes are too damn high.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

If you’re saying people think Trumps plan of shutting down ACA without another plan, is better than whatever Biden has(not shutting it down), then I overestimated the American public.

The ACA was going to be scrapped anyways, regardless of the crisis. The plan was to go back the private healthcare.
However, This little medicare for all for coronavirus patients experiement might reshape the debate going forward.

Why doesn't Biden just go with it? Why does he have to bash single payer?

[ResAlien]

It seems to be that the conservatives are happy to embrace those in their party who are further to the right because that’s what they want the party to be. Democrats are terrified of embracing those further to the left in their party because they in no way actually want those things. There is a right wing party and a centrist party in the US and people get pissy when the left wonders why they’re expected to support the people who are “basically sort of closest” to what they believe.

One party embraces their ideals, the other just wants watered down versions of the other party’s goals. Yeah it’s a real shocker that progressives aren’t exactly gung ho about this.