The original reasoning was likely rooted in Victorian-era ideas about "modesty" and "protecting the fairer sex" from men, much in the same way a lot of current-day political narrative talks about protecting women from men who use transsexuality to gain permission to these "safe spaces" and act like perverts.
A lot of why they're still gendered is our building codes. The way it works is one has to forecast the number of male and female occupants of a building and calculate a minimum number of required toilets for them on the basis of sex. It is assumed that the female occupants will proportionally need more of them than the males. For example for assembly occupancies it's assumed you need twice as many toilets for females vs. males.
Also...
It's old and outdated for sure. Bathrooms are bathrooms, and I am completely bored about the subject.
On another note in this topic...
Why is so much of the conversation centered on trans women and not trans men? Is there a subtle bias in assuming that someone born biologically a man is prone to violence even if they transition into being a woman, yet a biological woman transitioned into a man isn't capable of terrible things?
Obviously the correct answer is that people do terrible things regardless of gender identity or biological gender or whatever, but it's infrequent overall. Let's stop the bull#### in assuming an extremely small subset of society is out there trying to do harm to others. The sheer small size of the community would indicate that on average they're unlikely to commit any violence.
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Serious question - is there a gender advantage in skiing or snowboarding sports?
Yeah, men go way faster, way higher, do way more complex tricks. There were probably teenaged boys at cop tonight who could give a female Olympic athlete a run for her money.
Here's the men's Olympics 2022 gold medal run:
Here's the women's Olympics 2022 gold medal run (by my daughter's hero):
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Yeah, men are always way better at physical sports than women. The argument against worrying about trans people being able to participate in sports as who they are would be how many trans people are there in the world? How many of those have dreams of being athletes and follow through? How many of those are male transitioning to female? Therefore, what is the actual statistical worry of it ever affecting olympics and sports in general in any meaningful way?
Not likely much, if at all. I mean, it's above the bathroom worry, but not by much.
I mean statically there's a waaaay better chance that a trans person will be ridiculed and bullied into a suicide attempt than rising to the top of the heap in a sport because they started out male. The latter being nearly impossible for them.
But if they can get there than all the power to them, as that's a better life than most trans will ever be able to live. Trans youth attempt suicide at a 32% - 50% rate depending on country. Maybe let's not catastrophize over the minuscule chance that one trans person may dream of becoming an athlete, get through all the **** that comes their way as a trans youth, get to the top and then beat born women in some sport or event.
Yeah, men are always way better at physical sports than women. The argument against worrying about trans people being able to participate in sports as who they are would be how many trans people are there in the world? How many of those have dreams of being athletes and follow through? How many of those are male transitioning to female? Therefore, what is the actual statistical worry of it ever affecting olympics and sports in general in any meaningful way?
Not likely much, if at all. I mean, it's above the bathroom worry, but not by much.
Agreed, I'm not concerned. It was a side conversation by Cappy where he said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
I will truly never understand the obsession CIS people (particularly men) have railing against trans issues.
You are probably a 40 year old, partially overweight accountant. Why does it matter if trans women compete in sports?
The bathroom issue is just so easily solvable. Most places now have gender neutral bathrooms with separate stalls and communal sinks. How is this an issue?
I just thought it was a good point he brought up because mtf trans people do create an interesting wrinkle in sports I don't think anybody has figured out how to fairly resolve.
Tread carefully with Cappy on that one, though. He seems to get frustrated discussing the thing he brought up lol.
Ah I see, thanks for the clarification. I just don't see the need to worry, myself. It' a not a wrinkle as no human being in their right mind would want the life that a trans person endures. So just like the bathroom worry, nobody is going to do this as a non-trans male just to get access to bathrooms/sports.
So that just leaves actual trans going from male to female. Then you start running the statistics on a number of factors.
- How many trans in the world
- How many of those come out of their youth with any level of confidence/accomplishment through all the bullying/distancing/belittling
- How many of those have dreams of being an athlete of any kind
- How many of those follow through and make it to a meaningful level
When you start running through the statistical probability, the number we'd likely see gets smaller and smaller with each question to the point where you can't outright call it a boogey man, but....it's pretty damn close.
Any chance any of the mouth breathers will change their minds with Murdoch's sworn testimony that Fox knew Trump's claims of election fraud were lies during the Dominion defamation trial?
Quote:
Newly released court documents reveal that Rupert Murdoch, the billionaire owner of Fox News, acknowledged under oath that several Fox News hosts endorsed Donald Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was stolen from him.
The mogul made the admission during a deposition in the $1.6bn defamation lawsuit brought against the network by the voting machine company Dominion Voting Systems, which has accused Fox News and its parent company, Fox Corporation, of maligning its reputation. In his deposition, Murdoch said that the hosts Maria Bartiromo, Lou Dobbs, Sean Hannity and Jeanine Pirro “endorsed” the false narrative promoted by Trump.
On the one hand, I hope they bury Fox News...on the other hand, I know the mouth breathers would migrate to even more fanatical 'news' outlets like Newmax or OAN...
Quote:
Dominion’s defamation case is being described as a “landmark”. A Harvard law professor recently told the Guardian he had “never seen a defamation case with such overwhelming proof that the defendant admitted in writing that it was making up fake information in order to increase its viewership and its revenues”.
A very difficult thing to quantify, but the number of people, globally, who are born intersexed is- by some measures - about the same as the number of redheads: about 1.7% of the global population.
Now intersexed is not at all the same thing as trans, but it does put into perspective the relative frequency of people who may experience some form of gender dysphoria.
Any chance any of the mouth breathers will change their minds with Murdoch's sworn testimony that Fox knew Trump's claims of election fraud were lies during the Dominion defamation trial?
On the one hand, I hope they bury Fox News...on the other hand, I know the mouth breathers would migrate to even more fanatical 'news' outlets like Newmax or OAN...
#### those #######s....
It’s baked in - they won’t change their mind. Probably will reckon that Murdoch has been coerced by liberal elite mind bending scanner paedos from Ukraine.
I think the risk of allowing trans into female sports is that
A. viewers will think it's unfair and not watch, unless all the athletes in the competition are trans.
B. girls will no longer enroll in sports with no chance to win.
I mean the chance to succeed in sport is already like 1% and there only one winner. This makes it even more impossible. I mean, would you drive your girl to early practices and invest the money if she's physically at a disadvantage?
There's a lot of arguments about 'fairness' in every day life and this is just another one of them, It can be something as general as trans in sport or more specific like, why is my kid getting less ice time than that kid? Oh, I didn't donate enough. Or in the workplace, why does so and so keep taking smoke breaks. There are people who measure every little thing over fairness. And there are people who just love to complain, everything is a slippery slope.
I mean there's even a big controversy of allowing trans participants in beauty pagaents and that's not even athletic!
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Last edited by GirlySports; 02-28-2023 at 09:08 AM.
Agreed, I'm not concerned. It was a side conversation by Cappy where he said this:
I just thought it was a good point he brought up because mtf trans people do create an interesting wrinkle in sports I don't think anybody has figured out how to fairly resolve.
Tread carefully with Cappy on that one, though. He seems to get frustrated discussing the thing he brought up lol.
Lol sorry, Sliver. Not frustrated. I understand the issues surrounding trans women competing in sports. My comment first comment was mostly related to friends/colleagues discussing this issue out of the blue during drinks or lunch etc. like it was some sort of huge problem that needed to be solved to fix the world's ills.
My comment about "who cares" was mostly directed at that type of person. The person with some axe to grind against trans people. Obviously the father of an aspiring olympic athlete may have reason to care more than most; also as Cecil pointed out, its a discussion board so it makes sense to have an opinion.
In my opinion, the olympics could be a no-hold-bars event full of steroids and other performance enhancing mechanisms and i couldnt care less
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I think the risk of allowing trans into female sports is that
A. viewers will think it's unfair and not watch, unless all the athletes in the competition are trans.
B. girls will no longer enroll in sports with no chance to win.
I mean the chance to succeed in sport is already like 1% and there only one winner. This makes it even more impossible. I mean, would you drive your girl to early practices and invest the money if she's physically at a disadvantage?
There's a lot of arguments about 'fairness' in every day life and this is just another one of them, It can be something as general as trans in sport or more specific like, why is my kid getting less ice time than that kid? Oh, I didn't donate enough. Or in the workplace, why does so and so keep taking smoke breaks. There are people who measure every little thing over fairness. And there are people who just love to complain, everything is a slippery slope.
I mean there's even a big controversy of allowing trans participants in beauty pagaents and that's not even athletic!
I think they have already fixed the trans athlete question. You have to be on Hormone blockers to compete. It’s not perfect but likely good enough. It’s a red herring designed to bring a non-hinking person into the anti-trans world. It’s so unimportant and rare.
Outside of the elite athlete it doesn’t matter as tiering puts people against similar competition.
Lol sorry, Sliver. Not frustrated. I understand the issues surrounding trans women competing in sports. My comment first comment was mostly related to friends/colleagues discussing this issue out of the blue during drinks or lunch etc. like it was some sort of huge problem that needed to be solved to fix the world's ills.
My comment about "who cares" was mostly directed at that type of person. The person with some axe to grind against trans people. Obviously the father of an aspiring olympic athlete may have reason to care more than most; also as Cecil pointed out, its a discussion board so it makes sense to have an opinion.
In my opinion, the olympics could be a no-hold-bars event full of steroids and other performance enhancing mechanisms and i couldnt care less
haha, I'm super with you on that. Let's make super humans with all the drugs and bionics we can. We can have the boring vanilla olympics with people who just go to the gym a bunch, but the main events would be the augmented people.
I don't know how we got so lame.
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My comment first comment was mostly related to friends/colleagues discussing this issue out of the blue during drinks or lunch etc. like it was some sort of huge problem that needed to be solved to fix the world's ills.
My comment about "who cares" was mostly directed at that type of person.
The amount of energy people put toward the subject is puzzling especially in terms of how many people we're talking about here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StatsCan
In May 2021, there were 59,460 people in Canada aged 15 and older living in a private household who were transgender (0.19%) and 41,355 who were non-binary (0.14%). Together, they represented 1 in 300 people, or 0.33% of the population aged 15 and older. [source]
Like really, that's what gets you incensed, 0.33% of the population that have nothing to do with you?
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