I am also of the opinion the Flames ruined Sam Bennett. Hartley talked about the importance of playing young skilled stars as much as possible even if they make mistakes.
Sam Bennett is not the same player he was in 2015-16. We see shades but not the confident blossoming player. I've said it before but Gulutzan seemed like he was always experimenting with hockey idea's, He had no business developing Sam Bennett as a player. As a team we have wasted a lot of years with these foolish coaching hires! The players we have will most likely move on and we will have to restart this process with new players.
I am also of the opinion the Flames ruined Sam Bennett. Hartley talked about the importance of playing young skilled stars as much as possible even if they make mistakes.
Sam Bennett is not the same player he was in 2015-16. We see shades but not the confident blossoming player. I've said it before but Gulutzan seemed like he was always experimenting with hockey idea's, He had no business developing Sam Bennett as a player. As a team we have wasted a lot of years with these foolish coaching hires! The players we have will most likely move on and we will have to restart this process with new players.
Thing is - play him with who? Tkachuk was better, and a better fit with Backlund. Ferland made the top line and looked good. Frolik was about at his peak and had great chemistry with Backlund that year. Backlund was also on shutdown duties and no way Bennett could handle that. They put him with Brouwer, who was supposed to be good, and Versteeg or Chiasson.
GG’s primary job was to win, and he went with the best players in the top 6.
Thing is - play him with who? Tkachuk was better, and a better fit with Backlund. Ferland made the top line and looked good. Frolik was about at his peak and had great chemistry with Backlund that year. Backlund was also on shutdown duties and no way Bennett could handle that. They put him with Brouwer, who was supposed to be good, and Versteeg or Chiasson.
GG’s primary job was to win, and he went with the best players in the top 6.
yeah, and that’s the problem right there. GG’s job was to win. Treliving’s moves were done to win. It should have been about development, otherwise Sam should have been in the AHL. They didn’t put Sam in a position to succeed, and everything just went haywire from there.
That year where they stuck Bennett with Brouwer and the other castoffs was such a disaster.
The line should have been Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett OR Tkachuk - Bennett - Frolik. Bennett had earned that roster spot, his potential was there. Instead Gully just relied on the safety of the 3M line which did nothing to further develop the team...and yadda yadda yadda, years down the road and the team is no better than it was when Gully first took over. This of course isn’t due just to Bennett not working out, but it was a giant screw up.
Last edited by ComixZone; 03-03-2021 at 10:54 PM.
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yeah, and that’s the problem right there. GG’s job was to win. Treliving’s moves were done to win. It should have been about development, otherwise Sam should have been in the AHL. They didn’t put Sam in a position to succeed, and everything just went haywire from there.
That year where they stuck Bennett with Brouwer and the other castoffs was such a disaster.
The line should have been Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett OR Tkachuk - Bennett - Frolik. Bennett had earned that roster spot, his potential was there. Instead Gully just relied on the safety of the 3M line which did nothing to further develop the team...and yadda yadda yadda, years down the road and the team is no better than it was when Gully first took over. This of course isn’t due just to Bennett not working out, but it was a giant screw up.
How did Bennett “earn” a spot at RW over Frolik or more so at C over Backlund?
How did Bennett “earn” a spot at RW over Frolik or more so at C over Backlund?
18G, 18A for 36 points in 77 games as an NHL rookie.
Michael Frolik put up 15G, and 17A for 32 points in 64 games as a veteran.
If I'm a team, I'm playing Sam Bennett ahead of Michael Frolik. Set up the younger player in a position to succeed.
Instead, this team did what it always does. They took the easier route with Frolik. They fed Bennett to the Brouwer led wolves, and we are where we are. What did the team accomplish while they had Frolik up in the line-up? Why even bother defending the team at this point? What has the organization done well? If it's all on the players, well...the organization picked them. Be better, and don't pick bad players. Don't sign, draft, or trade for garbage players.
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Originally Posted by atb
Wow, the vision and passing ability he showed just vanished.
It didn't vanish. It was beat out of him by one of the most incompetent organizations in the league, and a young player who didn't know how to deal with having the confidence absolutely ripped out of him.
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18G, 18A for 36 points in 77 games as an NHL rookie.
Michael Frolik put up 15G, and 17A for 32 points in 64 games as a veteran.
If I'm a team, I'm playing Sam Bennett ahead of Michael Frolik. Set up the younger player in a position to succeed.
Instead, this team did what it always does. They took the easier route. They fed Bennett to the Brouwer led wolves, and we are where we are. What did the team accomplish while they had Frolik up in the line-up?
It didn't vanish. It was beat out of him by one of the most incompetent organizations in the league, and a young player who didn't know how to deal with having the confidence absolutely ripped out of him.
So Frolik had a better year is what you are saying. The Backlund line was a shutdown line. Talk about throwing him to the wolves. And Frolik proceeded to have the best year of his career.
What did they do? Improved on the preceding year by almost 20 points and made the POs. And going into the year everyone thought Brouwer was a quality player. They put Bennett at C like everyone had begged for the previous year, and between two veteran guys who supposedly could score. That’s more responsibility but in a sheltered role.
So Frolik had a better year is what you are saying. The Backlund line was a shutdown line. Talk about throwing him to the wolves. And Frolik proceeded to have the best year of his career.
What did they do? Improved on the preceding year by almost 20 points and made the POs. And going into the year everyone thought Brouwer was a quality player. They put Bennett at C like everyone had begged for the previous year, and between two veteran guys who supposedly could score. That’s more responsibility but in a sheltered role.
That's not true, and it became very apparent within the first few weeks that he wasn't even an NHL player. They could "supposedly" score. That's not the reality of it at all. He was strapped to anchors and tossed into the friggin' ocean, it doesn't matter that Treliving thought Brouwer was good - he was wrong, and really couldn't have been any more wrong than he was.
Bennett played with Backlund in his rookie season, but couldn't do it in year 2?
This team banked on a foolish, stupid coach who made foolish, stupid decisions with a roster loaded with garbage. They did not put Bennett in a position to succeed, and in the end they got exactly the results they deserve.
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Speaking of Frolik, Bennett should be taking a hard look at how his career has gone since asking the Flames for a trade. From complaining about ice time with the Flames to playing in the AHL in one season.
Speaking of Frolik, Bennett should be taking a hard look at how his career has gone since asking the Flames for a trade. From complaining about ice time with the Flames to playing in the AHL in one season.
I don't get it? IMO, he should have asked for a trade a couple years ago when he realized he wasn't moving up the lineup. The team didn't give him a chance and he's been playing poor since. It's a chicken before the egg argument of who caused what, but Sam should have requested a deal for himself years ago.
It's weird to say, but every Flames jersey has a guy who I associate with it the most.
These were the Iginla jerseys:
These were the Fleury jerseys:
These were the Gaudreau/Monahan jerseys:
And these, without a doubt, were the Sam Bennett jerseys:
He was such a different player in that 2015-16 year, when he wore that jersey. He scored four goals in that uniform and deked the pants off the Penguins in it.
He'll always be the first guy I think of whenever I see one of those jerseys.
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That's not true, and it became very apparent within the first few weeks that he wasn't even an NHL player. They could "supposedly" score. That's not the reality of it at all. He was strapped to anchors and tossed into the friggin' ocean, it doesn't matter that Treliving thought Brouwer was good - he was wrong, and really couldn't have been any more wrong than he was.
Bennett played with Backlund in his rookie season, but couldn't do it in year 2?
This team banked on a foolish, stupid coach who made foolish, stupid decisions with a roster loaded with garbage. They did not put Bennett in a position to succeed, and in the end they got exactly the results they deserve.
They wanted to move Bennett back to his natural Center position in his second season which is fine.
If anything the argument should have been why didn’t they give him Tkachuk as his winger and shelter the crap out of them.
From pretty much the get go of that season they went 3M line, and Bennett got to play with useless Troy Brouwer.
In the 16-17 season you had two young players that could have established another great pairing like Gaudreau and Monahan. Instead Gulutzan was probably too afraid to play the two young guys together and Tkachuk and Bennett played a grand total of 61 minutes together at 5v5 that year.
Tkachuk flourished playing 785 of his minutes with Backlund.
Bennett floundered playing majority of his time with Brouwer who was just an anchor. Bennett was 52% xGF without Brouwer that season, and 39% with Brouwer.
Those two key development seasons are why Bennett didn’t become they player we thought he could be. Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg or Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett or Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett could have all been tried but weren’t. Ferland only had 25 points that year so not like moving him or Chiasson off that line should have been unheard of.
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Originally Posted by DazzlinDino
I am also of the opinion the Flames ruined Sam Bennett. Hartley talked about the importance of playing young skilled stars as much as possible even if they make mistakes.
Sam Bennett is not the same player he was in 2015-16. We see shades but not the confident blossoming player. I've said it before but Gulutzan seemed like he was always experimenting with hockey idea's, He had no business developing Sam Bennett as a player. As a team we have wasted a lot of years with these foolish coaching hires! The players we have will most likely move on and we will have to restart this process with new players.
This.
Gulutzan hammered Bennett on puck management and not taking too many risks with the Puck. It killed his confidence and he stopped trying to do any of the creative stuff that was part of his game. They tried to turn him into more of a North-South grinder.
And I worry the same thing is happening to Dube now. Ward benched him for taking a penalty and for his puck management. And he’s just been brutal since then looking very passive on the ice and like he’s afraid to make a mistake.
Young guys need the freedom to make a mistake and still be trusted next shift.
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Maybe they could have given Bennett more rope, but his minutes weren’t bad, and the next year they did exactly what you suggest - they paired him with their other up and coming rookie. It went south.
There’s a real push by a lot of people here to blame coaches and the GM for everything that goes wrong with players they latch onto. Bennett’s flop, Tkachuk’s issues, Monahan’s slump, even Lucic’s odd flubbed pass. And some criticisms are valid. They did struggle trying to find a spot for Bennett and people here argued about what was best for him: C, W, minors, vets, sheltering, top line.
But a lot of it is inconsistent. No one blames coaching for players they hate. No one says a coach ruined Neal and took him from 20 goal man to useless. No one says GG was responsible for Tkachuk’s success or for Backlund and Ferland having career years. Nor should they. Most of the success or failure of a player is on the player. Iginla won the scoring race, and the Pearson, under Greg Gilbert.
ETA: Pairing with Brouwer wasn’t great but, no you couldn’t tell within a week that it wasn’t going to work. And Versteeg was a decent player. But moreover, you can’t tell when a player is working hard and doing good things but being let down by linemates. Bennett was not playing well all on his own. And give him Tkachuk? Demote Tkachuk to third line to help Bennett? I don’t think that’s a good idea at all. And then you play who at LW with Backlund?
Last edited by GioforPM; 03-04-2021 at 08:32 AM.
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Maybe they could have given Bennett more rope, but his minutes weren’t bad, and the next year they did exactly what you suggest - they paired him with their other up and coming rookie. It went south.
There’s a real push by a lot of people here to blame coaches and the GM for everything that goes wrong with players they latch onto. Bennett’s flop, Tkachuk’s issues, Monahan’s slump, even Lucic’s odd flubbed pass. And some criticisms are valid. They did struggle trying to find a spot for Bennett and people here argued about what was best for him: C, W, minors, vets, sheltering, top line.
But a lot of it is inconsistent. No one blames coaching for players they hate. No one says a coach ruined Neal and took him from 20 goal man to useless. No one says GG was responsible for Tkachuk’s success or for Backlund and Ferland having career years. Nor should they. Most of the success or failure of a player is on the player. Iginla won the scoring race, and the Pearson, under Greg Gilbert.
ETA: Pairing with Brouwer wasn’t great but, no you couldn’t tell within a week that it wasn’t going to work. And Versteeg was a decent player. But moreover, you can’t tell when a player is working hard and doing good things but being let down by linemates. Bennett was not playing well all on his own. And give him Tkachuk? Demote Tkachuk to third line to help Bennett? I don’t think that’s a good idea at all. And then you play who at LW with Backlund?
But call it the third line, or second scoring line, doesn't make a difference. Backlund would still take the harder matchups, defensive zone draws, etc.
I don’t know why people are pointing fingers over who to blame in the organization for Bennett’s failure to developed as projected. His offensive skills did not translate to the NHL beyond an early flash. He had the tools to beat teenagers, but not grown, fast men. It happens with many prospects with every team.
Where we can point fingers is at Bennett for not putting in the effort to use the skills he does have to become a reliable player defensively. If you’re not a top point producer, your play without the puck is what determines how much your coaches trust you and how much ice time you get. That isn’t a Flames thing, it’s an NHL thing. Sure, it rankles the ego of players who are accustomed to being stars and getting loads of pp time. But that’s what being a professional means.
Six seasons into his NHL career, on his fourth head coach, and Bennett has never been trusted to play on the penalty kill. What does that tell you about his defensive effort, smarts, and play without the puck?
If Bennett is playing in Europe three years from now, he’ll have nobody to blame but himself. He could have changed and adapted his game. Lots of highly drafted former stars do. Whether it’s out of stubbornness or entitlement, Bennett has chosen not to.
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I know it’s popular now to say Bennett looked good in his rookie season but that’s not my recollection. He mostly scored the same goals as he gets now, stuff ins created by others, weird bounces, etc. He was really inconsistent, but not just because he’d go a month without a point - because when he didn’t get a goal he was just not noticeable. When Tkachuk was on the ice in his rookie year you knew it.
Go back and look at the Bennett thread from his rookie year. People were unhappy with his play and his supporters were insisting that he’d do better if only he was at centre (and also they were insisting he be put on the first PP unit).
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I sure hope the Flames don't bungle the Gaudreau asset the way they bungled so many other assets over the years.
They need to either get him extended as soon as it's possible to a fair extension (not some bloated cap killer contract) or deal him for a decent return before he walks in free agency for sweet #### all.
I wonder if a package around Konecny is more possible this year, than maybe it was in the past. Konecny isn't having as strong of a season, plus Farabee is having a nice little coming out party. Maybe Frost is more expendable as well with Patrick finally healthy.
I've always thought Gaudreau, Bennett for Konecny, Frost would be a nice return to retool the core if it doesn't look like Johnny can get extended at a fair price.
If I recall correctly, the two alternatives to Bennett most frequently floated around leading up to that draft were Nick Ritchie and Valeri Nichuskin.
We would not have been much better off with either.
Flames pretty much went the consensus route at the time and it just didn't work out.
I remember Loubo suggesting they take a look at Horvat. Smart guy. Would've been a great pick and he would be the 2C at this point in all likelihood.
You're getting your drafts mixed up: Nick Ritchie and Bennett were 2014 picks; Horvat and Nichushkin were drafted in 2013 when the Flames picked Monahan.
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