Lindros calls for significant changes to reduce concussions

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Odd argument given the two sports share almost nothing in common

? If you take contact out of hockey, they are fundamentally very similar.

Opposing teams trying to score on each other's net, which is protected by a goalkeeper. Winner is the team who scores the most goals.


At the professional level, both games are extremely defensive-minded and low-scoring. So, they even play out pretty similarly.

[Nage Waza]

Obviously fighting is on the way out, even though the NHL (and even the UFC) downgrade the impact of getting punched. I think the future of contact hockey will be to only allow a bodycheck on a play when that player is moving in the same direction as you are. The players are too big and too fast to sustain this.

[UKflames]

Is it just me or is there a certain level of irony that a player that was part of a line known as the 'Legion of Doom' for their hitting as well as scoring, is now saying that there needs to be less hitting??

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

? If you take contact out of hockey, they are fundamentally very similar.

Opposing teams trying to score on each other's net, which is protected by a goalkeeper. Winner is the team who scores the most goals.


At the professional level, both games are extremely defensive-minded and low-scoring. So, they even play out pretty similarly.

Only at a surface level
The way the games are actually played are entirely different
Just look at the number of scoring chances per game as one example
Fears over hockey turning into soccer is in my view a huge exaggeration

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Well, although boxing is no longer as popular as it once was. The millennials prefer MMA(not a fan) which is way worse and basically a return to gladiatorial combat. If anything bashing men's(and women now) brains in is as popular as ever.

If you look at the olympics, combat sports like TKD and Karate have been recently added, they are very popular. Judo and Boxing have always been tough tickets as well.

Rules based violence will always be popular form of entertainment, nothing will change that.

I think I clearly made the point is not about violence or contact, but the irrevocable nature of brain damage.

And of course there will always be people who happily watch another person take permanent brain damage in order to spice up their Tuesday evening beer, but the question was "(if you're a thinking man) how could you?"

Edit: and boxing is a poster child for making brain damage worse in the name of less visible blood from superficial cuts so more people can watch.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

International ice. Give the skilled players more space.

This.



It doesn't even have to be as big as an international rink but even adding a couple of feet on both sides would make a difference.



I remember reading an article couple of years ago where the GMs actually were talking about this. Making the rink international size wouldn't work though since many of the arenas wouldn't be able to fit it since it's 15 feet wider. But something in between would work.



I've never heard about it talked again after that though so I guess it was buried.

[CliffFletcher]

I'm all for cracking down even harder on hits to the head and predatory shots. Start at 3 game suspensions and steeply ratchet up the penalties from there. Repeat offenders should be looking at 12 and 15 game suspensions.

But taking away body-checking? I don't know. The thing I love most about the NHL is emotion- those battles where players are playing in something close to a frenzy. The modern game already lacks emotion. Most regular season games are snore-fests. Take out body-checking, lower the emotional barometer of the game even more, and I'd probably check out altogether from regular season hockey.

[dash_pinched]

I think my biggest fear with the elimination of body contact would be the increase in stick fouls especially slashes to the hands/wrists. As Flames fans, we already have been witness to this with losing Gaudreau for a significant chunk of time back in 2016. I would rather see stiffer punishment for players who check players where the head is the primary point of contact as a deterrent to the kind of hits that lead to concussions.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by sempuki

I'm a hockey fan no matter what. How can you rationalize asking another man to get brain damage for your entrainment?

Broken bones heal. Torn ligaments can be reattached. How do you give a man his mind back?

How do you rationalize watching now, if that's how you feel?

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by sempuki

I'm a hockey fan no matter what. How can you rationalize asking another man to get brain damage for your entrainment?

Broken bones heal. Torn ligaments can be reattached. How do you give a man his mind back?

Everything in life involves risk. You also have a choice on what you do in life. I'm actually not sure if from an entertaining factor whether I'd continue watching hockey or if it would be a better on ice product. Changing the sport that drastically is a risk.

Consider:
-You can have a heart attack from a stressful office environment
-Die in a collapse while working in a mine
-Get killed while fishing when a storm approaches
-Drop dead from shovelling snow
-Get crushed by a line drive while watching a baseball game

All of these professions and situations come with a choice. I'd probably like to see hockey remain as-is and leave it at that.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

International ice. Give the skilled players more space.

This doesn't work the way people seem to think it will. International ice makes a much more boring game.

[Hatter]

I don't think body checking is an essential component of the game. If you took the rules from women's hockey, but substituted the physically stronger athletes from the men's game you would still have an incredible sport. Women's hockey isn't bereft of body contact. Likewise, basketball isn't lacking physical play without body checking as well.

I love the modern game, but I don't want the lives of the athletes damaged either. Listening to stories from guys like Marc Savard is heartbreaking.

Arguing that other jobs are dangerous is not a great argument either. Other professions take every possible precaution to protect the health of their workers. I work at heights and nobody has ever told me to not wear a harness because I'd be more efficient without one.

The hockey arena is not a gladiator arena. We can do more to protect the health of these athletes.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

How do you rationalize watching now, if that's how you feel?

I watch for the things other than the brain damage inducting plays. You're saying that if they took the brain damaging inducting plays out yours refuse to watch. Those are two different things entirely. "Whataboutism" is a argumentation that needs to die a painful death.

And ultimately it's the players choice whether the participate, and at least this one player is saying it should be taken out. How do I tell that player "if you refuse to accept brain damaging I will stop paying you to play the game you invested your life into?"

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

Everything in life involves risk. You also have a choice on what you do in life. I'm actually not sure if from an entertaining factor whether I'd continue watching hockey or if it would be a better on ice product. Changing the sport that drastically is a risk.

Consider:
-You can have a heart attack from a stressful office environment
-Die in a collapse while working in a mine
-Get killed while fishing when a storm approaches
-Drop dead from shovelling snow
-Get crushed by a line drive while watching a baseball game

All of these professions and situations come with a choice. I'd probably like to see hockey remain as-is and leave it at that.

Those are very unlikely accidental events. Brain damage from contact sports is an *eventuality*.

Hey if we understand the long term damage from concussions, and a grown adult chooses to take that in exchange for millions, good for them. But kids can't make that choice for themselves, and fans who say "it's not entertainment unless there's irreversible brain damage" are lacking something to say the least.

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by sempuki

Those are very unlikely accidental events. Brain damage from contact sports is an *eventuality*.

Hey if we understand the long term damage from concussions, and a grown adult chooses to take that in exchange for millions, good for them. But kids can't make that choice for themselves, and fans who say "it's not entertainment unless there's irreversible brain damage" are lacking something to say the least.

That's why no hitting is allowed with kids until they're older and can decide for themselves if they like the game or not.

I don't want to see anyone injured or suffer from something serious but with any sport, risk is involved. Mitigating that risk with banning head contact is a great move forward but eliminating body contact changes the game too drastically in my opinion and reduces the excitement and dynamics of the play.

[GreenLantern]

I'm all for this, obstruction was a great step towards opening the game up and reducing the chances players have to lay legal hits would just be another step forward.

The incredibly positive result of that is also increased health for the players. It really is a win win scenario and I am not sure why it even needs to be discussed to be honest.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by sempuki

How can you rationalize asking another man to get brain damage for your entrainment?

I don't know about this argument.



In boxing the idea literally is to hit a guys head and cause brain damage (although that's not the way people say it). And plenty of people have no problem watching and being entertained by it.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

Consider:
-You can have a heart attack from a stressful office environment
-Die in a collapse while working in a mine
-Get killed while fishing when a storm approaches
-Drop dead from shovelling snow
-Get crushed by a line drive while watching a baseball game

Well,
- I'm also a strong proponent of limiting unnecessary stress in workplace environments, moving towards shorter work days (which would also help mitigate unemployment) and workers rights which also helps limit work related stress. Plus you know, access to mental and physical healthcare should be for everyone.
- I very strongly support taking extensive safety measures in mines.
- Dying in a storm while fishing really shouldn't happen very often, considering how good technology has become in predicting the weather. And people shouldn't have to be pressed so hard financially that they have to risk their lives doing it. Plus overfishing is a major issue
- I also strongly support people taking safety measures when shoveling snow from their roofs.
- I will never sympathize with people who watch baseball, so what ever.

Jokes aside, while death is inevitable and everything involves some risk, that's not a very good argument for not trying to do something to limit the risks.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by codynw

This doesn't work the way people seem to think it will. International ice makes a much more boring game.

Far from the truth, and even further if you consider the trap era.

What games on international ice are you presenting as boring compared to a rough equivalent played on NHL ice?

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

That's why no hitting is allowed with kids until they're older and can decide for themselves if they like the game or not.

I don't want to see anyone injured or suffer from something serious but with any sport, risk is involved. Mitigating that risk with banning head contact is a great move forward but eliminating body contact changes the game too drastically in my opinion and reduces the excitement and dynamics of the play.

We're not talking about taking contact out because it causes physical pain in the moment, we're talking about it because the accumulation of a career of head trauma breaks people's brains irreparably forever, fundamentally changing changing personalities and lives of families. We're not talking about losing your full range of motion on the driving range, we're talking about losing your ability to participate in society, or be a father. There are orders of magnitude different propositions, and fans are lining up to say "but I'm not entertained!!"