Systemic Racism in US and Canada

[Cecil Terwilliger]

So you have no response to anything I said.

Why even post then?

[afc wimbledon]

Generally I find realtors offensive, I dont need them to be racist on top, that's almost gilding the lilly

[White Out 403]

We've gone mad as society.

Calling these greasy realtors racist is such a piss poor use of the word.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So you have no response to anything I said.

Why even post then?

Are you hammered? Seriously. I responded you exactly what you said but you didn't make any sense. It's Japanese font. I had to look again and I just read the article you posted for the first time and the font is an issue...

Lui said that the advertisement used “deliberately chosen Asian-style font” and shows how the entire system for marketing is deaf to racial undertones.

“The casual racism! The terrible form! The fonts! The random COVID slapped on there! Choices were made,” another Twitter user said.

You said I'm not culturally aware. What do you want me to say to that? You literally just said the font on the ad is not Asian. Your best argument is that the guys are in suits not ninja costumes. The whole freaking reason it is offensive is because we have developed the stereotype over a long period of time. It has a history. You don't have to dress up like Chris Farley In BH Ninja for it to be offensive. It already is offensive.



I'm not saying you have to be offended. I'm trying to explain to you why some people might be. You don't have to have black face on to be offensive. You can speak a certain way, act a certain way and even write a certain way and people will be offended because we had issues like black face in the past. That's the problem here.

[81MC]

Just want to point out, I have literally never called Karen a racist term. I’ve said it’s a stupid practise in a few different ways, maybe even called it stereotypical, but not racist. (At least i hope, because that’s very much not my aversion to that term).


Also, no, the guys are not pretending to be Asian. They are pretending to be ‘ninjas’. Call me bat#### crazy, but is it not exceptionally offensive to ‘asians’ to equate Asian and Ninja?

Again, I don’t understand. It would be okay if they were ‘Asian’; Not Japanese feudalists practising ninjutsu, but any Asian? If it were Vietnamese fellows, would they look close enough?

Or, is it the satire that’s ‘racist’? If the argument is seriously that anything that doesn’t respect the full gravity of something is offensive, were in for a world of ####.

And the font? I can’t even debate that, because it’s so ridiculous.

[sketchyt]

I'd like to see the response if these realtors did the same thing, but dressed as gangsters with copy of "The OG Gangsters of Real Estate" written in Menace II Society font.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

After all you wrote, did you not notice the font here? Much more culturally sensitive.

Also, Chris Farley is clearly representing ninjas as positive heroes here, whereas those guys were representing ninjas as ######bag realtors.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Just want to point out, I have literally never called Karen a racist term. I’ve said it’s a stupid practise in a few different ways, maybe even called it stereotypical, but not racist. (At least i hope, because that’s very much not my aversion to that term).


Also, no, the guys are not pretending to be Asian. They are pretending to be ‘ninjas’. Call me bat#### crazy, but is it not exceptionally offensive to ‘asians’ to equate Asian and Ninja?

Again, I don’t understand. It would be okay if they were ‘Asian’; Not Japanese feudalists practising ninjutsu, but any Asian? If it were Vietnamese fellows, would they look close enough?

Or, is it the satire that’s ‘racist’? If the argument is seriously that anything that doesn’t respect the full gravity of something is offensive, were in for a world of ####.

And the font? I can’t even debate that, because it’s so ridiculous.

I think you argued Karen was a racist term in the Morons of the Pandemic thread. But I couldn't tell if you're just mad for the sake of being mad or if it's an actual issue you were having. So I dunno really.



I think the easiest way to look at it is from a positive example. Chief Osceola of the Seminole tribe rides his appaloosa out to center field and plants a burning spear before every Seminoles home game. It's absolutely chilling. Everybody goes freaking nuts. In in a world where you can't let your kid dress up as Pocahontas for Halloween, this "mascot" kind of sticks out like a sore thumb. The difference however is that the tribe is an equal partner with the school. They were consulted and allowed to display their own culture as they see fit. It's not a stylized version of what our culture expects it to be. It still angers some other people and tribes, but it works for the majority of people on both sides. It's not a white guy in a bobble head suit carrying a tomahawk.



Ninja as a term is a bit like Benihanna...invented in the 60's and representing an exaggerated version of what western culture wants to believe is true about all Asians. I suppose this is offensive to some and puzzling to others. In all honesty I would not have give it a second look other than to think it was kind of a dumb way to advertise and the two guys looked like dorks. But I do think I get why some people find it offensive now.



There are also definitions on line that suggest "Ninja" is offensive...

(US) A derogatory term for Asian Americans. Derived from the perception that most or all Asian Americans are ninjas or otherwise are skilled in martial arts and/or advanced assassination techniques.

[GirlySports]

It's fine that people are offended and complain and the realtor feels he made a mistake and takes it down. You can complain about any ad to any company for any reason and they will determine the next course of action.

That doesn't mean the billboard is racist nor should it make the news nor should he have to apologize for the entire white race.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

After all you wrote, did you not notice the font here? Much more culturally sensitive.

Also, Chris Farley is clearly representing ninjas as positive heroes here, whereas those guys were representing ninjas as ######bag realtors.

I won't judge whether or not someone should be offended, or whether or not the realtor ad is racist. Something doesn't need to be racist to be offensive either. I suspect these guys were being ignorant and didn't understand that this could be a culturally sensitive or provocative thing. Ninja lore has been adopted of the cultural zeitgeist in the Western world, but the lore itself is mostly fictional.

I have Japanese in-laws and they are very relaxed about their views, but that doesn't mean everyone is, or should be. I asked my sister-in-law before if associating ninjas with Japanese was racist, and she didn't feel it was. But she told me that the idea of ninjas as heroes was a Western fabrication. She said in Japanese culture, ninjas are regarded as degenerates that were assassins who killed without honor. They were apparently recruited from lower classes to do the work that was considered beneath the upper class rulers. They were basically hired hitmen and not noble or worthy of high regard.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

I'd like to see the response if these realtors did the same thing, but dressed as gangsters with copy of "The OG Gangsters of Real Estate" written in Menace II Society font.

The G in OG makes ‘gangster’ redundant.

[savemedrzaius]

Huh...fonts can be racist now.

Fonts can be racist now!

Fonts...Can be racist now?

Racist fonts?!?!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Why would that matter? It either is or is not offensive. You don't think it is and that's fine.

How many people are offended matters, because a liberal society can’t possibly uphold social norms if the threshold for offence is 2 or 3 per cent of people. Imagine, for instance, if everything that made Mormons uncomfortable was scrubbed from pop culture.

We can’t continue ceding moral authority to a few hundred sanctimonious scolds on twitter. Not unless we want to see the legitimacy of whoever is doing the ceding - whether it’s the media, schools, or government - undermined in the eyes of the public.

[RogerWilco]

Better cancel Cobra Kai while we are at it, Daniel-san's billboard add it pretty insensitive. In-fact we better ban all of the movies too.

[GirlySports]

There are many examples of this. Read this article and tell me what you think?

Why America Needs College Football

[jonesy]

Is every Asian wearing a suit and tie also appropriating culture, after all a business suit is western culturalal attire
Can a non Asian take karate and wear a Gi?
Can Black people straighten their hair and not be considered appropriating culture?

That ad is not poking fun at Ninja's, it is portraying them as something good as far as I an tell. ex: on this forum if someone says: "ninja edit" it is not racist, it means you did something quick and efficient.

There is real racism out there. Pretending the above is racism or wrong is setting back the fight.

[Harry Lime]

Is something that is generally adored by another culture considered racist? Who doesn't love ninjas?

The only answer that I can think of is samurai. Samurai don't love ninjas.

There is a conspiracy here, and I feel we are just on the edge of blowing it wide open.

[Fuzz]

[Vena]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Is every Asian wearing a suit and tie also appropriating culture, after all a business suit is western culturalal attire
Can a non Asian take karate and wear a Gi?
Can Black people straighten their hair and not be considered appropriating culture?

That ad is not poking fun at Ninja's, it is portraying them as something good as far as I an tell. ex: on this forum if someone says: "ninja edit" it is not racist, it means you did something quick and efficient.

There is real racism out there. Pretending the above is racism or wrong is setting back the fight.

I think the suit and hair straightening examples are responses of Nations/Cultures/Races responding to dominant and/or colonial culture.

If we dig deeply into the business suit example, it is done to fit into the more dominant Euro-centric culture. Colonial powers had a huge influence with what went on in China in the 19th/20th century. The Japanese empire perceived itself as an equal to the Western colonial powers and did adapt where it had to protect its sovereignty. I suppose it is appropriation, but it is being done to blend into the dominant culture and to ensure economic (cultural, as well?). If we look at the idea of businessman or woman in their cultural 'business' dress, do you take them seriously? Lots of interesting history around fashion, particularly why men's fashion has become reduced to a business suit.


As for the hair straightening example, it is definitely an attempt to fit in to a perceived notion of what a (beautiful?) woman should look like in North America. We have seen this starting to change. I am specifically speaking about North American examples. African American women may feel the need to straighten their hair because look at the reactions to Michelle Obama's hair when it is curlier than normal or even when Beyonce styles her hair different.

Another example, is Ayanna Pressley when spoke out about alopecia. If you want to hear her talk about her relationship with her hair: https://theglowup.theroot.com/exclus...ald-1841039847

The hair issue goes beyond race and brings in gender. Are women ever allowed to be comfortable styling their hair however they feel? Personally, I have always tried to conform. I have straightened my curly hair because I want to be accepted. I don't anymore because straightening my hair regularly damages it. Plus, I feel like straight hair isn't the only option for beauty anymore.

The Gi example is interesting. I look at it as sign of respect and comformity when a North American wheres a gi in Dojo. Dojo's have retained much of their traditional culture. Gi's serve a cultural and practical purpose. It is likely that one should where a Gi in a Dojo if they wish to be a member of it. It's likely appropriation on some level.

Anyway, we are all being challenged think more deeply about what we see around us. This is a consequence of living in a Eurocentric/Colonial culture that believed in its superiority and tried crush all resistance from mocking, collaborating, assimilating, and even genocide. Most of what people are 'offended' (I hate that word so much) today were the same things the people were 'offended' by a century ago. There has always been resistance. Often the popular narrative of history has been manipulated to erase that resistance.

Not looking to argue of this. I think we just need to be more thoughtful and intentional in our actions. It's not comfortable and it is not required of anyone, but don't be surprised when others challenge us to think.

[GirlySports]

You are trying to straighten your hair, I am trying to curl my hair. We're both just damaging it!