MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[btimbit]

Wait it's for paper bags too?

That's just idiotic

[Bill Bumface]

Why not just mandate they need to use paper instead of plastic?

Letting them sell reusable bags is just creating more garbage and using more energy to do it.

[Bigtime]

I got the letter and email from the City back in September.

Businesses can only provide shopping bags if:

-A customer asks for a shopping bag or takes one from a self-serve area
-Staff asks the customer if they require a shopping bag
-A customer answers a prompt on an ordering platform requesting a shopping bag

-Minimum fee is $0.15 for new paper shopping bags (must contain at least 40% recycled content) and $1 for new reusable shopping bags. Fees increase in 2025.
-Fees will be kept by the business

[timun]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Wait it's for paper bags too?

That's just idiotic

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Why not just mandate they need to use paper instead of plastic?

The plastic bags were already banned by the feds. The purpose of the City surcharge on paper and reusable bags is to encourage people to stop using single-use bags entirely.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Wait it's for paper bags too?

That's just idiotic

Yeah, that's stupid, especially when in the FAQs, the rationale for doing this is to reduce plastic waste.

It has an exemption for bags measuring 400 cm², which would be about 15cm x 26cm. That's about the size of a small drive-thru bag. Of course, that just means if you go to the drive-thru and get 4 meals, rather than putting all the food in one slightly larger bag, it will be cheaper to give you each meal in its own smaller bag -- creating more waste.

[CliffFletcher]

Governments impose these niggling, annoying measures on things like shopping bags, while they don’t do anything about the ridiculous amount of packaging you see in the goods the we actually buy in the stores. Bags of snacks from Costco where each item inside is individually packaged. Plastic clamshell cases around everything from pens to produce.

But reducing at the manufacturing level would be complicated and hard. So just bring down blanket bans on grocery bags and straws to make it look like you’re doing something.

[Jimmy Stang]

I'm fine with banning and/or taxing single use plastics. But a paper, compostable bag at a drive through window? That misses the point entirely.

Obviously paper needs to be produced, causes waste, etc. but if we reduced our plastic use and replaced some of it with paper, we're still causing less harm in production and in waste. Taxing a "better" behaviour that reduces the use of plastic is just backwards.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by timun

The plastic bags were already banned by the feds. The purpose of the City surcharge on paper and reusable bags is to encourage people to stop using single-use bags entirely.

The fact that the bag is made from 100% recycled materials and will itself becomes recycled material is why this is especially so f-cking stupid.

This whole push to reusable bags as created a hell of a lot more reusable bag waste for me. Going to the store is often a spur of the moment thing; driving home from where ever, "oh, I have a moment, I should stop by at Co-op for groceries" and bam, I don't have the reusable bag I bought on-hand, because I left it in my apartment. Once I get about seven of them sitting in my pantry, all but two go in the trash so "next time" I'll be prepared and have them with me. Then I don't, and we repeat the cycle.

I bought a 10-roll of Co-op's compostable bags and I just keep them in the map pocket of the RRS. When I get to Co-op, I grab two. They're nice and compact, and when I get them home, they're compostable, so I don't need to remember to take a bag down to the car again. Best of both worlds.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by timun

The plastic bags were already banned by the feds. The purpose of the City surcharge on paper and reusable bags is to encourage people to stop using single-use bags entirely.

Understood.

But the "reusable bags" are just plastic bags, but worse. It's another item on the list of shallow environmental measures that don't actually help, but sound good to voters.

This one feels like a mini version of Germany phasing out Nuclear power to be "green" and replacing it with coal. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada now spends more energy creating grocery bags than before the ban.

[getbak]

Hopefully one positive side effect of this will be A&W needing to properly wrap up their burgers again rather than the nonsense they do now. Imagine going to the drive-thru and them just handing you a half-wrapped burger with toppings falling out all over the place.





Also, I have to say I like Co-op's solution to their compostable bags not being given an exemption under the single-use plastics ban... We can't sell you those grocery bags that can be repurposed as compost bags anymore. Coincidentally, we have started selling these compost bags near our checkout lanes that look suspiciously like those old grocery bags and if you happen to buy a package of them, no one can stop you from opening the package and using the bags to carry your groceries home.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Governments impose these niggling, annoying measures on things like shopping bags, while they don’t do anything about the ridiculous amount of packaging you see in the goods the we actually buy in the stores. Bags of snacks from Costco where each item inside is individually packaged. Plastic clamshell cases around everything from pens to produce.

But reducing at the manufacturing level would be complicated and hard. So just bring down blanket bans on grocery bags and straws to make it look like you’re doing something.

This is spot on.

There is so much packaging that is actually not recyclable that we all use, and can be easily replaced with something that can.

For example, multilayered plastic bags are not recyclable. Some things, like food, may require it; but there are many that dont.

You know those new packages that came out within the last 10 years that stand up on the shelves?



These cannot currently go in the Blue Bin.

How stupid is that?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/standup-pouches-1.4753156#:~:text=And%20the%20packaging%20is%20app ealing,different%20materials%2C%20it's%20not%20rec yclable.

[fotze2]

I just was told about this at lunch, I actually had an argument with the guy who told me they are charging for bags at McDonalds. I said he has been following to many right wing accounts and I didn't believe him. But its true?

The mushroom bags at the store have gotten worse too (companies surely are milking this crap too). I was getting a big bag on Wednesday, go to put it in my cart that was already full of my home Lululemon bags. So I am like a homeless guy managing his loot and worldly possesions tring to use that 2 ft^2 space in my cart and the piece of #### bag explodes, mushrooms everywhere. Pick up some, then stomped some others.

OK I'll put what I want in two bags, not as full, second bags tears and more mushrooms on the floor. Pick up a bunch throw them bag in the bin which is gross but screw Sobeys, stomp a few more, kick some, yell fata.

Just left my basket there and grabbed my bags and left.

Bags are made out of toilet paper?

Where does this stop? If you think about it, in the summer, do we really need clothes? Do we really? Nope. Why not have an optimally nutritional gruel. WE could centralize all our food production emissions in one spot. Perfect. Have a gruel pipeline network already when we shut in the natural gas.

Rant

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Understood.

But the "reusable bags" are just plastic bags, but worse. It's another item on the list of shallow environmental measures that don't actually help, but sound good to voters.

Well reusable bags are worse if you don't reuse them. But in theory you would buy one bag and it would be used hundreds or thousands of times, which is obviously way better than the equivalent in single-use plastic bags.

In practice, however, it hasn't worked that way. Retailers used to hand them out like candy for cheap or free, every conference/event/promotion would add another to the pile, etc. leading to people sitting on loads of ironically unused reusable bags. You can't give them away because everyone else has their own stash already.

Another example is takeout containers. Single use ones are to be banned (federally), but if you use a thicker plastic that can be used multiple times, it isn't technically single-use anymore, even though most people will still only use it once. More plastic. Hopefully the compostable options offset that.

[fotze2]

I really think this would be good for those 7-eleven hot dogs though. If you ever cannot find a 7-eleven, if you see some of these hot dog containers littered about, just follow them and you will be led to a 7-eleven.

[curves2000]

It's scenarios like this and a whole host of other little things that make me laugh. When humans in advanced countries like Canada are struggling with some of the most basic things like this, recycling and more, what makes us think we will achieve anything meaningful large scale?

According to the Government of Canada, we can't hit double digit's in terms of recycling plastic's in Canada, yet we are going to magically go net zero, phase out oil and gas, scale up EV sales in the near term and more? All this with a federal government who is laser focused on environmental issues?

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment...tic-waste.html

Climate emergency in Calgary or not, if the people who declare these things struggle with ineffective concepts at the low level, why would the people higher up the power and food chain be any better?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Understood.

But the "reusable bags" are just plastic bags, but worse. It's another item on the list of shallow environmental measures that don't actually help, but sound good to voters.

This one feels like a mini version of Germany phasing out Nuclear power to be "green" and replacing it with coal. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada now spends more energy creating grocery bags than before the ban.

The reusable bags are just the new single use bags. And the Coop compostable issue is the dumbest possible decision. A cashier told me that not only can they not sell one (as we know), but technically they’re not allowed to tell you where they are in the store, but they do exist. I don’t know how true that part is, but would it entirely surprise me?

Honestly, the legislators pushing these things need to be voted out purely on these decisions. They’ve clearly solved every other issue that actually matters at this point.

[timun]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The fact that the bag is made from 100% recycled materials and will itself becomes recycled material is why this is especially so f-cking stupid.

This whole push to reusable bags as created a hell of a lot more reusable bag waste for me. Going to the store is often a spur of the moment thing; driving home from where ever, "oh, I have a moment, I should stop by at Co-op for groceries" and bam, I don't have the reusable bag I bought on-hand, because I left it in my apartment. Once I get about seven of them sitting in my pantry, all but two go in the trash so "next time" I'll be prepared and have them with me. Then I don't, and we repeat the cycle.

I bought a 10-roll of Co-op's compostable bags and I just keep them in the map pocket of the RRS. When I get to Co-op, I grab two. They're nice and compact, and when I get them home, they're compostable, so I don't need to remember to take a bag down to the car again. Best of both worlds.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Understood.

But the "reusable bags" are just plastic bags, but worse. It's another item on the list of shallow environmental measures that don't actually help, but sound good to voters.

This one feels like a mini version of Germany phasing out Nuclear power to be "green" and replacing it with coal. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada now spends more energy creating grocery bags than before the ban.

Don't get me wrong, gentlemen: I agree. It's to the point that it's silly, and I would wager the push to use re-usable bags has led to more energy use and more waste overall. I was super-miffed that I recently had to buy a cloth bag from the New Horizon Co-op (Grande Prairie region) because they had no paper bags to sell; I just happened to be travelling for work and didn't have another bag on-hand at the time. It's a bag that I will scarcely ever use again, I'll probably end up throwing it out.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The fact that the bag is made from 100% recycled materials and will itself becomes recycled material is why this is especially so f-cking stupid.

This whole push to reusable bags as created a hell of a lot more reusable bag waste for me. Going to the store is often a spur of the moment thing; driving home from where ever, "oh, I have a moment, I should stop by at Co-op for groceries" and bam, I don't have the reusable bag I bought on-hand, because I left it in my apartment. Once I get about seven of them sitting in my pantry, all but two go in the trash so "next time" I'll be prepared and have them with me. Then I don't, and we repeat the cycle.

I bought a 10-roll of Co-op's compostable bags and I just keep them in the map pocket of the RRS. When I get to Co-op, I grab two. They're nice and compact, and when I get them home, they're compostable, so I don't need to remember to take a bag down to the car again. Best of both worlds.

I've taken to tossing them in the trunk whenever the hook at the back door starts overflowing. It's not sure fire(I ended up bag-less yesterday) but it's saved me a lot of cursing.

[monkeyman]

I’m at the point where all I can do is laugh. That or bury a big bag of dog #### in my recyclables.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I've taken to tossing them in the trunk whenever the hook at the back door starts overflowing. It's not sure fire(I ended up bag-less yesterday) but it's saved me a lot of cursing.

I try and keep a couple in each car, plus one of those Superstore collapsible fabric box thingys. Those are very handy.

My habits have gradually changed, and I am rarely caught without nowadays. Which I suppose is the goal. I'm open to having my habits changed, provided there is a reasonable alternative.

Back to fast food bags - I don't see there being a reasonable alternative to a good, old paper bag. Do we want my reusable superstore bag, including the dog hair that might be stuck to it, being passed into the drive through window to be filled with food?

A paper drive through bag is already about as low-impact yet still practical as we can get. Penalizing that just makes people more cynical, even those that care about reducing plastic waste.