Gibson Guitars face bankruptsy

[DownhillGoat]

For the love of god would somebody fix the thread title.

[ernie]

While I’d love a Les Paul as an old guy who decided to learn how to play only about 9 months ago at 42 I’m happy enough with the toys I have. That isn’t to say I didn’t pick up a stupidly expensive one at the factory store and noodled around a bit.

Guild Polara s-100 (which let’s face it is just a asymmetric SG)



Ty Tabor Signature Yamaha RGX-TT (this was a guitar I wanted 15 years ago when I watched Ty play them in concert. Well before I started to learn obviously. It’s gorgeous)

[speede5]

Originally Posted by blankall

Their pricing is definitely driving away customers.

If you want to attract youth customers, you need fancy looking guitars with trendy designs.

They price the "studio versions" somewhat reasonably, but then charge an extra $1000 dollars for the exact same guitar with a painted finish on top, which probably cost them at most $100 to add. Business and retail models have changed. People expect the cool add ons and customizations as a matter of course.

They've done that exact same thing with that Krueger guitar too, charging around $1000 extra, just because it has Krueger's name on it. Krueger has a lot of fans, and people will pay for his guitar, but that extra gouging is just so far out of wack. Many of Krueger's fans are going to be compromised in their ability to work, due to generations of inbreeding, where are they supposed to come up with that kind of scratch?

People are willing to pay $300 for a set of headphones just because they say Beats on the side, and over a $1000 for a new iPhone every year cause some minute detail was changed. Name brands will always be able to charge for the name.

$1000 more for a custom name brand guitar isn't really that out of whack.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I have a hard time seeing (most) kids/teens pick up a guitar or any real instrument these days.
The future will be terrible music made on cell phone apps.

My 10 year old son is into EDM and composes music on a piece of software called Ableton Live. He's taken piano lessons, so he has a good a grounding in the basics. And he has a natural talent. But it's pretty remarkable the songs he can create just spending a couple hours on Ableton.

https://soundcloud.com/spectralllllll/visions

https://soundcloud.com/spectralllllll/future-brass

It takes hundreds of hours of practice just to make a decent sound out of a guitar. Thousands of hours to become really proficient. And at that point, you're still only playing one instrument in a band.

It's a matter of cost-benefit. When it comes to creating songs, the cost-benefit of 1,000 hours composing using software far exceeds that of 1,000 hours learning the guitar.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by speede5

People are willing to pay $300 for a set of headphones just because they say Beats on the side, and over a $1000 for a new iPhone every year cause some minute detail was changed. Name brands will always be able to charge for the name.

$1000 more for a custom name brand guitar isn't really that out of whack.

Don't get me started on iPhone costs, but the issue is kids not getting into the market. If you really want to create a market for instruments, you need to get people involved early. Yes, adults will buy guitars, but they represent a small section of the potential market. Most kids don't have $3000 to drop on a guitar. You can get a Gibson for $1200 or so, but the Gibsons in that bracket lack the aesthetic appeal.

Going back to your example of iPhones and headphones, people are paying in part for aesthetic appeal. People have come to expect that now. You need quality and aesthetics.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It takes hundreds of hours of practice just to make a decent sound out of a guitar. Thousands of hours to become really proficient. And at that point, you're still only playing one instrument in a band.

Anyone could learn the basic open chords in a week or two, and play simple campfire songs. A lot of punk music was two or three chords. But, too really shred would take lots of daily practice.

You could still compose a lot of music on an acoustic guitar without being able to solo like Yngwie Malmsteen.

Cliff, if your son is interested, CJSW has EDM shows that are always looking for local content.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by troutman

Anyone could learn the basic open chords in a week or two, and play simple campfire songs. A lot of punk music was two or three chords. But, too really shred would take lots of daily practice.

You could still compose a lot of music on an acoustic guitar without being able to solo like Yngwie Malmsteen.

Cliff, if your son is interested, CJSW has EDM shows that are always looking for local content.

Isn't there a quote somewhere by Kieth Richards about 3 chords songs and the Stones building a career on them?

[Matata]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Isn't there a quote somewhere by Kieth Richards about 3 chords songs and the Stones building a career on them?

I think that's more of a commentary on the depth of music theory used in their music. Their music isn't complex, but it isn't that simple either.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by blankall

Don't get me started on iPhone costs, but the issue is kids not getting into the market. If you really want to create a market for instruments, you need to get people involved early. Yes, adults will buy guitars, but they represent a small section of the potential market. Most kids don't have $3000 to drop on a guitar. You can get a Gibson for $1200 or so, but the Gibsons in that bracket lack the aesthetic appeal.

Going back to your example of iPhones and headphones, people are paying in part for aesthetic appeal. People have come to expect that now. You need quality and aesthetics.

I feel like you're touching on a different issue, that being that people won't start something unless they can start at the top.

My son's first electric was a garage sale find, a real 80's metal guitar. It was all I could afford, a decent guitar but he wasn't a metal player so it didn't have his sound. He played that guitar for a couple years and saved his money til he could afford to build his guitar, a spot on replica of a John Mayer guitar. We bought parts from all over online, same pick ups, all the right parts. $1600 and the thing turned out beautiful. He has been playing it for 6 years and toured the country 3 times with his band.

He does want a couple different electric guitars but he spent his money on an acoustic last year. I don't know when he will buy another electric but he will save for what he wants/needs and pay accordingly. Sound trumps looks.

I've lost my point but I think it's that you can't have the best right out of the gate and you need to build up to that, and once your there if you truly know what you're doing you will pay for what you need. I don't feel like people turned off by a price tag because of a fancy paint job are the clients these companies need.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by speede5

People are willing to pay $300 for a set of headphones just because they say Beats on the side, and over a $1000 for a new iPhone every year cause some minute detail was changed. Name brands will always be able to charge for the name.

$1000 more for a custom name brand guitar isn't really that out of whack.

But are you really getting that with Gibson. A custom made quality guitar. If you read up in many of the online guitar forums you will see so many people complaining about the lack of quality you are getting for an expensive guitar. The company just doesn't make guitars like they used to.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It's a matter of cost-benefit. When it comes to creating songs, the cost-benefit of 1,000 hours composing using software far exceeds that of 1,000 hours learning the guitar.

If that is your primary consideration in learning to play an instrument I would say you probably should take up knitting. It's about a love for music and a particular instrument that speaks to you.


I guess that becoming a doctor or a lawyer probably aren't the greatest jobs either because look how much time and energy you have to put into it to be accomplished.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Matata

I think that's more of a commentary on the depth of music theory used in their music. Their music isn't complex, but it isn't that simple either.

TO be clear that wasn't a shot, I am a big Stones fan. Exile on Mainstreet is, IMO the greatest album ever out out and Beggers Banquet has to be in the told ten.

[nik-]

I just don't get the love for Exile on Main Street.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

TO be clear that wasn't a shot, I am a big Stones fan. Exile on Mainstreet is, IMO the greatest album ever out out and Beggers Banquet has to be in the told ten.

I mostly commented because I've been hearing the "only used 3 chords" line my whole life and I've never really understood it, because its so rare to see a song only written with 3 chords (Hey Ya by Outkast is the only one that comes to mind). I've learnt a few songs by the Stones and for the most part, Keith is a very nuanced player who uses lots of different chords and different tunings. Is he referring to scales? Major, minor and diminished chords? Are the Ramones a one chord band because all they really use are power chords? Makes my brain hurt.

[Hack&Lube]

If there's anything I've learned is that an amazing guitarist can make the cheapest guitar sound great and a rookie guitarist can make the most expensive guitar sound terrible.

The guitar industry is in real crisis with dropping sales every year. Axe Music is closing in Calgary this month I believe.

Kids just aren't gravitating to the instrument. It's no-longer the mainstay of popular music and youth culture.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Matata

I mostly commented because I've been hearing the "only used 3 chords" line my whole life and I've never really understood it, because its so rare to see a song only written with 3 chords (Hey Ya by Outkast is the only one that comes to mind). I've learnt a few songs by the Stones and for the most part, Keith is a very nuanced player who uses lots of different chords and different tunings. Is he referring to scales? Major, minor and diminished chords? Are the Ramones a one chord band because all they really use are power chords? Makes my brain hurt.

Aren't many popular songs based around three chords or less?

https://www.guitarplayerbox.com/thre.../guitar/songs/

Hey Ya has a crazy 11/4 time signature.
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab...a_chords_90698

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Matata

I mostly commented because I've been hearing the "only used 3 chords" line my whole life and I've never really understood it, because its so rare to see a song only written with 3 chords (Hey Ya by Outkast is the only one that comes to mind). I've learnt a few songs by the Stones and for the most part, Keith is a very nuanced player who uses lots of different chords and different tunings. Is he referring to scales? Major, minor and diminished chords? Are the Ramones a one chord band because all they really use are power chords? Makes my brain hurt.

Each power chord is still a different chord. I love the Ramones, and their songs are great for beginners who want to build finger strength and learn strumming techniques. Part of playing electric is learning to use the physical instrument, and not just the musical theory, for example, distortion and other signal modifications. Punk music is great for that.

The stones style involves a lot of complicated picking and variations (different strings played, strumming patterns, etc...) of each chord. So even if they are using only a few chords they can create a lot of variation and complexity in the way they play those chords. A great example is "Angie". Not many chords played (more than 3 though), but a lot of different melodies made from complex use of those chords.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by troutman

Aren't many popular songs based around three chords or less?

https://www.guitarplayerbox.com/thre.../guitar/songs/

Hey Ya has a crazy 11/4 time signature.
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab...a_chords_90698

There are only 157 songs on the list (only 3 are Rolling Stones), but it jumps to 605 for 5 chord songs, so 3 chord songs are probably still a small fraction of all songs. Once again I find myself in a situation where trying to dissect the "only 3 chords" line has only left me more confused and now I have to spend the next week trying to forget about it.

Still doing the kit guitar?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Matata

Still doing the kit guitar?

I'm thinking of getting an artist friend to do something cool with the body first.

[Matata]

My buddy who builds all his own guitars is a big fan of sparkles:

Spoiler!