2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Both those players were given better linemates and opportunity as well. Calling a 21 year old 4th overall pick with great tools a bust already after being given crap for opportunity is ridiculous.

We should be comparing Bennett with his draft class instead of Scheifle and Marchand.

Patrnak, Draisatil, Point, Ehlers, Reinhart, Nylander, Larkin, Arvidsson. Ekblad, Montour on defense. All making an impact on their teams and would go higher than Bennett in a redraft.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd argue with you over whether or not Ferland "earned it". In fact, one could easily say that after Bennett's rookie season and Tkachuk's arrival - Tkachuk should have played with Backlund while Bennett was promoted to RW with Monahan and Gaudreau. Instead, Gulutzan and the Flames set him up to fail by moving him to centre and playing him with absolute rubbish for an entire season - and then they tried to do it AGAIN the following year after they foolishly put Jankowski back in the AHL for 10 games. I'm sorry, but good organizations just don't do this. Good organizations don't sign crap contracts with bad players like Brouwer and then staple them to the side of your young, promising players. No good team does that to promising prospects.

At the risk of repetition, Bennett boosters insisted that he should play centre up until this year. And he played with Johnny for about 25% of the time (about as much as or more than any other winger except for Chiasson).

Jankowski being sent down was simply numbers. Mostly due to Jagr. But its not like Bennett/Jankowski lit it up when he came up (after only ten games).

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by pepper24

We should be comparing Bennett with his draft class instead of Scheifle and Marchand.

Patrnak, Draisatil, Point, Ehlers, Reinhart, Nylander, Larkin, Arvidsson. Ekblad, Montour on defense. All making an impact on their teams and would go higher than Bennett in a redraft.

What's the common theme with every single one of those players?

They got good circumstances to play in.

Pastrnak - Bergeron and Marchand, wow.

Draisaitl - McDavid, wow.

Point - Johnson, wow.

Ehlers - Laine, Little, wow.

Reinhart - O'Reilly, Eichel, wow.

Nylander - Matthews, Kadri, wow.

Larkin - Athanasiou, Tatar, Mantha, Abdelkader...all better than what Bennett gets.

Arvidsson - Forsberg, Johansen


Seriously. Look at the opportunities that these players got compared to Bennett. Even if you want to say "Bennett needs to earn his time with Sean and Johnny" well then fine, there's still NO excuse for the absolute crap we iced on our 3rd line in 16/17, and then again at the start of 17/18. It's no wonder we've had no success - and you can't blame that on Bennett's inability to carry completely awful players up and down the ice. This teams forward ranks below forward #8 (Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland, Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Jankowski) isn't just bad - it's atrocious.

This team needs to add skill to the bottom 6, not subtract it.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

At the risk of repetition, Bennett boosters insisted that he should play centre up until this year. And he played with Johnny for about 25% of the time (about as much as or more than any other winger except for Chiasson).

Jankowski being sent down was simply numbers. Mostly due to Jagr. But its not like Bennett/Jankowski lit it up when he came up (after only ten games).

I was definitely one of the guys who wanted to see Bennett as a centre, but above all else - he needs linemates that are GOOD NHL players. It's ridiculous and really exposes just how bad we are up front when you look at the rubbish Bennett played with on the "3rd line" (Jankowski not included on that, because he's at least another good promising player - and other than normal youthful inconsistencies, I think Janko+Bennett are the start of somethin good - but they need help. Hathaway isn't that. Versteeg isn't that. Brouwer isn't that).

[Oling_Roachinen]

Maybe if Bennett had shown he could be anything but a passenger with good players, as each of those players listed had, he would be on a line with Gaudreau and/or Monahan.

[theslymonkey]

What drives me crazy is that the Flames drafted Bennett to be an impact scorer but GG sinks him on the third line. Johnny, Mony, Tkachuk and Bennett are 4 of the top six. If Bennett isn't going to play center, then figure out who out of Johnny, Tkachuk and Bennett is going to play on their off wing. Seriously...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by pepper24

We should be comparing Bennett with his draft class instead of Scheifle and Marchand.

Patrnak, Draisatil, Point, Ehlers, Reinhart, Nylander, Larkin, Arvidsson. Ekblad, Montour on defense. All making an impact on their teams and would go higher than Bennett in a redraft.

Sure but you can do that every year. First, 3 of those guys did in fact go before Bennett. And who was going to take Point, Arvidsson or even Pastrnak or Larkin anywhere near the top 5?

Monahan would go a couple spots higher, probably. Gaudreau would go top 3.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Maybe if Bennett had shown he could be anything but a passenger with good players, as each of those players listed had, he would be on a line with Gaudreau and/or Monahan.

He's had no significant time with Gaudreau or Monahan, and when he has, it's been inconsistent and he's been bounced around the line-up like crazy.

Consistency is important.

Sure, blame Bennett for not making a great impact immediately when plopped on a line...but then when he does get put on the line and instantly produces, he gets demoted the very next game because we picked up Chris friggin' Stewart off waivers.

[CliffFletcher]

It's as though people are watching a different player. The Bennett I see routinely kills plays on his stick. He still tries to beat guys 1 on 1 and fails. Multiple times a game. He doesn't use his skating to give himself space and time to let plays develop. He doesn't use his teammates well. He's still trying to do the things that worked for him as a 17 and 18 year old.

That doesn't look like a lack of confidence - you have to be pretty confident to think you can beat a NHL defender 1 on 1. It looks like a guy who doesn't see the ice well, and doesn't cycle through his options well. Who struggles to process the game at an NHL level.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd argue with you over whether or not Ferland "earned it". In fact, one could easily say that after Bennett's rookie season and Tkachuk's arrival - Tkachuk should have played with Backlund while Bennett was promoted to RW with Monahan and Gaudreau. Instead, Gulutzan and the Flames set him up to fail by moving him to centre and playing him with absolute rubbish for an entire season - and then they tried to do it AGAIN the following year after they foolishly put Jankowski back in the AHL for 10 games. I'm sorry, but good organizations just don't do this. Good organizations don't sign crap contracts with bad players like Brouwer and then staple them to the side of your young, promising players. No good team does that to promising prospects.

Young, good developing players don't carry lines by themselves. It doesn't happen. Good teams identify that developing players need good players to play with so that they can develop at the NHL level. Hartley (I don't like Hartley as a whole, and was 100% in support of firing him) at least understood this. Gulutzan did not, and for his part - Treliving absolutely failed this team by signing Brouwer to be that - Brouwer sucked before we gave him that contract, and he's sucked ever since.

Ferland 100% earned it. Since entering the league he's just gotten better and better and I am confident he will put up better numbers next year. He played mostly bottom 6 minutes in 2016/2017 and put up a respectable 15goals. Was tried with the top line the next year and he stuck. He’s a perfect compliment to the top line.

As for Brouwer, in hindsight we can say that he’s no good or that it was a bad signing, but at the time of the signing, he seemed to be the perfect player for Bennett’s development. A career ~20/20 RS RWer who we all thought would be a good compliment for Bennett. No idea why his play has fallen off so dramatically.
As for “young, good developing players don’t carry lines by themselves”. That is 100% false. There are countless players who do that in the league, much less on this team, who fit that mold. We have 3. Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk. All three of them started life in the bottom 6, playing with guys like Stempniak, Raymond, Jones, Stajan, Chiasson, Colborne, Galiardi and Glencross before forcing the coaches to move them up. No coach worth their salt will gift young players minutes with superstar line mates.
When Tkachuk first entered the league he didn’t deserve to play with Backlund at that point because he hadn’t proven #### all, so he started on the 4th line with Stajan before being moved up due to his play. If anything, Bennett was given the benefit of the doubt by GG and given the 2C role (ahead of Backlund) playing with our newly acquired UFA in Brouwer (who was supposed to be good) and Ferland who was an up and comer.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It's as though people are watching a different player. The Bennett I see routinely kills plays on his stick. He still tries to beat guys 1 on 1 and fails. Multiple times a game. He doesn't use his skating to give himself space and time to let plays develop. He doesn't use his teammates well. He's still trying to do the things that worked for him as a 16 and 17 year old.

That doesn't look like a lack of confidence - you have to be pretty confident to think you can beat a NHL defender 1 on 1. It looks like a guy who doesn't see the ice well, and doesn't cycle through his options well. Who struggles to process the game at an NHL level.

I see the same player but I think you have to factor in his line mates and a bad coach and other excuses for all that or something.

[Vinny01]

Go on hfboards and see what the opinion of Bennett is. Fans are offering 3-4th round picks and prospects you have never heard of. It makes zero sense that the Flames sell him that low. Even for a first in the 20’s that makes little sense since thst player will be years away and likely will bust like most of the Flames first rounders picked in the 20’s.

It makes sense to keep him for another year and hope that a 22 year old player has room to grow.

I can envision a deal where the Flames trade Brodie and Bennett formsomething and both players go back to their ore Gulutzan expectations and the Flames look foolish.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He's had no significant time with Gaudreau or Monahan, and when he has, it's been inconsistent and he's been bounced around the line-up like crazy.

Consistency is important.

Sure, blame Bennett for not making a great impact immediately when plopped on a line...but then when he does get put on the line and instantly produces, he gets demoted the very next game because we picked up Chris friggin' Stewart off waivers.

Hudler then Ferland have been more deserving and productive on the top line with Gaudreau and Monahan. Also, he was experimented as center and just recently became a winger. Now I'd say Gaudreau, Ferland, Tkachuk and Frolik are more deserving of top 6 winger minutes.

Agree, Stewart and Bennett have no place on top line. Stewart never, maybe Bennett if he finds his game.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd argue with you over whether or not Ferland "earned it". In fact, one could easily say that after Bennett's rookie season and Tkachuk's arrival - Tkachuk should have played with Backlund while Bennett was promoted to RW with Monahan and Gaudreau. Instead, Gulutzan and the Flames set him up to fail by moving him to centre and playing him with absolute rubbish for an entire season - and then they tried to do it AGAIN the following year after they foolishly put Jankowski back in the AHL for 10 games. I'm sorry, but good organizations just don't do this. Good organizations don't sign crap contracts with bad players like Brouwer and then staple them to the side of your young, promising players. No good team does that to promising prospects.

Young, good developing players don't carry lines by themselves. It doesn't happen. Good teams identify that developing players need good players to play with so that they can develop at the NHL level. Hartley (I don't like Hartley as a whole, and was 100% in support of firing him) at least understood this. Gulutzan did not, and for his part - Treliving absolutely failed this team by signing Brouwer to be that - Brouwer sucked before we gave him that contract, and he's sucked ever since.

The point about Ferland is fair but I'd also say he wasn't particularly young anymore. And while I don't personally agree with it, older players get more leeway. And Ferland also showed he can score goals once he got a chance to play on the top line.



I'm not saying that Bennett should be carrying a line but a good player will shine on his own. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What's the common theme with every single one of those players?

They got good circumstances to play in.

Pastrnak - Bergeron and Marchand, wow.

Draisaitl - McDavid, wow.

Point - Johnson, wow.

Ehlers - Laine, Little, wow.

Reinhart - O'Reilly, Eichel, wow.

Nylander - Matthews, Kadri, wow.

Larkin - Athanasiou, Tatar, Mantha, Abdelkader...all better than what Bennett gets.

Arvidsson - Forsberg, Johansen

No question we need more depth for our prospects to play with when they come up, but those guys you listed weren't gifted superstar linamtes. All of them started on the 2/3 line with average players around them and worked their way up

Hyman - Matthew - Nylander was the 3rd line behind Kadri and Bozak at C. Essentially 3 rookies on one line. Matthews decided to score 4 in his first game.

Lucic - Spooner - Pastrnak.
Lucci was 0.5ppg that year and Spooner was also an up and comer. More favorable linemates I would say.

Connor - Perreault - Laine
A rookie who was sent down and a 2/3C.

Palat - Point - Gourde
Top6 winger in Palat with an unkown in Gourde.

Hall - Drai - Purcell
Drai had probably the most favorable linemates as he got to play with Hall and not Mcdavid.

I'm not gonna bother looking for GDT's of the other players but you get my point. For the most part young players are put into a 2/3 line role with average players. Bennett was put into a spot not too different from most of those players you listed.

[GioforPM]

I guess you have to ask yourself - does Bennett make a lot of plays that his line-mates kill, or is just not making a lot of plays?

I agree that Bennett produces more with Johnny and Monahan. So does almost any other forward if they are put on that line. Heck, Lazar probably has at least 5 times the goals if he plays RW on the top line.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

I'm not gonna bother looking for GDT's of the other players but you get my point. For the most part young players are put into a 2/3 line role with average players. Bennett was put into a spot not too different from most of those players you listed.

As a centre, Bennett played with Brouwer - who is worse than everyone you mentioned by a significantly large margin, Versteeg - who is not a good 5v5 player at all, and Chiasson, who is a 4th liner.

That is not similar to any of the situations you listed.

Then last year, he and Jankowski battled inconsistencies - but it's worth noting that their best month together was when Jagr was actually healthy, and when Hathaway was playing with the excitement of a recent recall. When they had help, they produced (let's not forget Bennett was our best player in December). Then Brouwer returned, then Hathaway plummeted back to Earth - both are bad NHL players who are again, worse than anyone you listed. (maybe Hathaway could play spot duty as a 13th forward...)

I think the Flames screwed up when they started bouncing Bennett around the line-up. Set him up for success on the wing like his rookie season so that he can continue to develop, or give him wingers worth a damn as a centre and let him take his lumps. Instead, he got nothing but inconsistency...which in turn, got inconsistent results.

All I want this year is consistency. Bennett + Jankowski + a good 5v5 NHL quality winger. That shouldn't be too much of an ask from a team that's supposed to make the playoffs. (which, in retrospect - wow did we kid ourselves if we thought we were making the playoffs with Brouwer, Versteeg, Jagr, Hathaway, Stewart, Glass etc. rotating through the line-up....what awful depth).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I guess you have to ask yourself - does Bennett make a lot of plays that his line-mates kill, or is just not making a lot of plays?

I agree that Bennett produces more with Johnny and Monahan. So does almost any other forward if they are put on that line. Heck, Lazar probably has at least 5 times the goals if he plays RW on the top line.

Johnny and Monahan definitely make any player better, but to expect Lazar to get 10 goals in a year may be a stretch.

[Toonage]

Lazar played with Monahan & Gaudreau. He looked like Lazar.

Bennett looked like he was shot out of a cannon when he played up with those two.

Could he sustain that pace over the whole year or would he be like Ferland? Don't know, but his skill set should be above Ferland's and I would have liked to see what he could produce over the course of more than a few games.

I also would have loved to see more of Bennett-Jankowski-Tkachuk.

To get the thread back on topic, I haven't heard any recent trade rumors nor do I have anything to speculate on presently.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I guess you have to ask yourself - does Bennett make a lot of plays that his line-mates kill, or is just not making a lot of plays?

I agree that Bennett produces more with Johnny and Monahan. So does almost any other forward if they are put on that line. Heck, Lazar probably has at least 5 times the goals if he plays RW on the top line.

Bennett's ceiling is higher than any of those other guys though.

By giving him time on the top two lines, you are looking to restart his game and jump start his confidence... and in doing so, salvage a promising talent.

trying to go one on one doesn't strike me as someone with confidence... it strikes me as someone trying too hard to set himself apart and not playing within the team structure as a result.

wherever one stands wrt to Bennett and his usage, its pretty clear, its not working right now... so your options are to package him up, trade him for another under performing young player or put him on a line where he is complimentary and not the line driver.

slotting him in the same role as last year is the last option Peters should be doing.

[Harry Lime]

One thing I love about this thread is that we have all come to the consensus that we are going to have a league dominant top 6 with :

Gaudreau - Monahan - Foo
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Bennett

And the best shutdown line in the universe :

Ferland - Backlund - Frolik

Unity. It warms the cockles of my heart. Maybe below the cockles. Maybe in the sub-cockle area.