[Trade] Flames acquire rights to Nikita Zadorov for 3rd acquired in Rittich trade

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, there’s being competitive and then there’s being an egomaniac. Yelling at young players who don’t put the puck exactly right on your stick in practice? If a coach did that we’d call him an ####### who’s stuck in the 90s. Dictating that the whole team has to comply with your dietary regime? Talk about entitlement.

What happened to the notion that no one player is more important than another? Whenever the curtain is pulled back on the team dynamics of pro sports, I can’t help but find the ferociously hierarchical, ego-driven culture obnoxious. Vets ####ting on rookies, star players being catered to and indulged, the pecking-order governing all. Frankly, the less I know about what goes on off the ice, the better.

I get where you’re coming from, but it’s much easier to tell your star player to tone it down than to teach the work ethic he has to everyone else.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Matthew Tkachuk wanted his teammates to try so hard that he quit trying hard himself?

Slap a C on him

Don't conflate what Matthew Tkachuk did to what Nathan MacKinnon does. MacKinnon demands excellence in execution of play and lets you know when you're not making the basic plays right. Tkachuk was pissed because his team didn't want to brawl after someone flipped a puck at him. Tkachuk wants the team to play in chaos while MacKinnon wants the team to play controlled and exhibit perfection in their play. Massive difference.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I remember Sundin yelling at guys who gave him a lousy pass as well

The split second you lose makes a difference. We have seen it here fairly often the past few years

These guys get paid millions, they are paid to execute at a high level, at speed

I agree that he sounds like a bit of an a-hole. The expectations are likely right. One thing is they weren’t clear how he yells at people. If it’s shouting across the rink so his teammate can hear him, it’s pretty normal, and not the same as getting up in his face.

Sundin shouted across the rink. He came across more like a guy who demands the best out of himself and his team

Just to chime in, I thought Zadorov meant screaming at the teammate in anger. The way he was phrasing it, it didn’t sound like yelling to be heard. He also mentioned there that Nate would shoot/slap the puck back at whomever gave him a bad pass. From the way he tells it, those weren’t exactly light shots, but that’s my interpretation. Zadorov does say he is a bit of a dick, but he clearly likes/adores the guy.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Don't conflate what Matthew Tkachuk did to what Nathan MacKinnon does. MacKinnon demands excellence in execution of play and lets you know when you're not making the basic plays right. Tkachuk was pissed because his team didn't want to brawl after someone flipped a puck at him. Tkachuk wants the team to play in chaos while MacKinnon wants the team to play controlled and exhibit perfection in their play. Massive difference.

Oh I am quite appreciative the distinction between how these two players conduct themselves

That was a sarcastic response to the bewildering situation that some people seem to still elevate Tkachuk over the team

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Just to chime in, I thought Zadorov meant screaming at the teammate in anger. The way he was phrasing it, it didn’t sound like yelling to be heard. He also mentioned there that Nate would shoot/slap the puck back at whomever gave him a bad pass. From the way he tells it, those weren’t exactly light shots, but that’s my interpretation. Zadorov does say he is a bit of a dick, but he clearly likes/adores the guy.

Makes sense, thanks.

Definitely appreciate your translation, it is helpful in that we are able to know more about Zadorov than many of the Flames we have been watching for years

[Robbob]

At the end of the day the Flames are getting a Dmen that hits to hurt and will be tough to play against. Would David Savard's contract be a comparable for a contract?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Makes sense, thanks.

Definitely appreciate your translation, it is helpful in that we are able to know more about Zadorov than many of the Flames we have been watching for years

Yeah the funny part is that I posted probably half the content in that interview. I didn’t really write up anything about his personal life, what he likes, his investments, playing Cs:GO with other Russian players and do on. The one part I’m somewhat tempted to write up is NHL superstitions/pre game routines for Zadorov and a few other NHLers.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Yeah the funny part is that I posted probably half the content in that interview. I didn’t really write up anything about his personal life, what he likes, his investments, playing Cs:GO with other Russian players and do on. The one part I’m somewhat tempted to write up is NHL superstitions/pre game routines for Zadorov and a few other NHLers.

I’m sure you’d have an appreciative audience for that part on superstitions and routines!

[868904]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Come again? I mean, yeah, Iginla was sullen toward Conroy when he was acquired because he was bewildered by losing Stillman in the same deal. This stuff about MacKinnon is on a whole other level.

Since the Avalanche have yet to get themselves out of the second round, then I remain highly sceptical that his on-ice treatment of his teammates is in any way helpful, and conducive to winning.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

There's also the "we don't dump the puck in on this line" story. Iggy also did a lot of trash talking to his teammates. He and Regher had battles. Sure, I'll give you that Mackinnion "screaming" at his linemates is on another level, but it's not unheard of from leaders in hockey. Messier apparently threw Kent Nilsson up against a wall.

As for the Avs not making it past the second round and this supporting that Mackinnion is wrong, I think you are putting too much on Mackinnion, there are a lot more variables than that. It's hard to win the cup, I don't think Mackinnion being demanding is the reason the Avs haven't made it past the second round. Mackinnion is the least of the Avs problems in the playoffs.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Don't conflate what Matthew Tkachuk did to what Nathan MacKinnon does. MacKinnon demands excellence in execution of play and lets you know when you're not making the basic plays right. Tkachuk was pissed because his team didn't want to brawl after someone flipped a puck at him. Tkachuk wants the team to play in chaos while MacKinnon wants the team to play controlled and exhibit perfection in their play. Massive difference.

You guys really think Tkachuk who had been playing mind games with the rest of the league for the previous 4 years, all of the sudden loses it after getting a puck flipped at him?

It's almost 100% certain that the report was accurate about the "leadership" of the team wanted him to tone down his play because it differentiated from their weakass, nohit, buttersoft style of play.

With Gio gone, Tkachuk is going to get at least 80 points this season.

[btimbit]

Mac holds the rest of his team to the same high standard that he holds himself, and gets upset when others don't. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's that MJ stuff, like has been mentioned. Yeah it rubs some people the wrong way. It also works.

It'd be a different story if he was getting after people for stuff he wasn't willing to do, but since he also sets the bar himself, I love it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 868904

He's demanding that they take practice seriously and that they take their health and fitness seriously.

Do you think T.J Compher would be allowed to dictate the food provided at the Avs’ rink? Or that Ian Mitchell could tell the Hawks’ trainers he was using Keith’s skates if they felt better that day?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 868904

...As for the Avs not making it past the second round and this supporting that Mackinnion is wrong, I think you are putting too much on Mackinnion, there are a lot more variables than that. It's hard to win the cup, I don't think Mackinnion being demanding is the reason the Avs haven't made it past the second round. Mackinnion is the least of the Avs problems in the playoffs.

You have no argument from me there. But by the same token I also don't believe that MacKinnon's treatment of his teammates is the key ingredient to putting the Avalanche over the top.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Mac holds the rest of his team to the same high standard that he holds himself, and gets upset when others don't. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's that MJ stuff, like has been mentioned. Yeah it rubs some people the wrong way. It also works.

It'd be a different story if he was getting after people for stuff he wasn't willing to do, but since he also sets the bar himself, I love it.

8 years in the league and zero championships. At what point will he realize that there's a difference between demanding and inspiring.

It's common to see him blow up on teammates during the game, staying that I have yet to hear a negative thing about him in regards to that (so it might not be a bad thing)

If all he wants to do is win, then maybe he should look at the way he is leading and call that out. It only works when you have championships to back it up

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

You guys really think Tkachuk who had been playing mind games with the rest of the league for the previous 4 years, all of the sudden loses it after getting a puck flipped at him?

Yes. Guys that play mind games are the ones most susceptible to mind games themselves.

It's almost 100% certain that the report was accurate about the "leadership" of the team wanted him to tone down his play because it differentiated from their weakass, nohit, buttersoft style of play.

Pretty sure that was a message sent by the whole team. This was actually an opportunity for Tkachuk to step up and show he was a skilled player, could play a team game, and contribute to a winner. His response to the challenge was lacking. For a guy who talks a big game he sure doesn't show up when the pressure mounts.

With Gio gone, Tkachuk is going to get at least 80 points this season.

Doubtful. This is a Sutter team. They're going to try and win games 2-1 or 3-2. I wouldn't be surprised to see the leading scorer on this team have 60-70 points. Unless all the eggs are in one basket, I think Tkachuk is in that 50-60 point range.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Yes. Guys that play mind games are the ones most susceptible to mind games themselves.



Pretty sure that was a message sent by the whole team. This was actually an opportunity for Tkachuk to step up and show he was a skilled player, could play a team game, and contribute to a winner. His response to the challenge was lacking. For a guy who talks a big game he sure doesn't show up when the pressure mounts.



Doubtful. This is a Sutter team. They're going to try and win games 2-1 or 3-2. I wouldn't be surprised to see the leading scorer on this team have 60-70 points. Unless all the eggs are in one basket, I think Tkachuk is in that 50-60 point range.

We clearly don't know the full story and details.

But I'm equally concerned about both scenarios.

1) Tkachuk quit on the team because he was mad they didn't come to his defense.

2) Team leadership literally neutered one of their best assets by telling him not to play his style.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ ^ @Lanny - agreed on player point expectations. Look no further than Iggy’s stats by coach

~mid 60s with Sutters when playing D first style*, ~90s with Playfair and Keenan

* Brent did comment that he may have been too focused on D in year 1, adjusted in year 2, found it didn’t work and went back in year 3

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

You guys really think Tkachuk who had been playing mind games with the rest of the league for the previous 4 years, all of the sudden loses it after getting a puck flipped at him?

It's almost 100% certain that the report was accurate about the "leadership" of the team wanted him to tone down his play because it differentiated from their weakass, nohit, buttersoft style of play.

With Gio gone, Tkachuk is going to get at least 80 points this season.

Well, no. This is not even remotely certain.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Mac holds the rest of his team to the same high standard that he holds himself, and gets upset when others don't. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's that MJ stuff, like has been mentioned. Yeah it rubs some people the wrong way. It also works.

It'd be a different story if he was getting after people for stuff he wasn't willing to do, but since he also sets the bar himself, I love it.

Generally the coach was the one pushing that narrative.

But nowadays they’re too busy telling all the players that they’re the same. So that role has probably transitioned more to the players.

When I played back in the day all of the coaches pushed the players. On the better trams the players also held each other accountable.

It’s a bit of an artform to motivate people and not have them hate you. But if you find people that are good at it the organizations they are a part of generally excel.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

We clearly don't know the full story and details.

But I'm equally concerned about both scenarios.

1) Tkachuk quit on the team because he was mad they didn't come to his defense.

2) Team leadership literally neutered one of their best assets by telling him not to play his style.

For people looking for positives going into next season, at least this happened under Ward and in the late stages of the season things seemed to be getting back to normal with Darryl in charge. Darryl is a very big part of the team's leadership now, and he's proven in the past that he can get teams to buy in to doing things his way and have success doing it.