A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Except when we thought Jon was Ned's bastard it was implied he would never have a claim to any throne/Winterfell.
So I'm not sure the patriarchy thing overrules the bastard thing.

It appears that it does for the Throne: that's why Cercei had all of Roberts bastards killed in Kings Landing in season 1 (or 2?).

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Nyah

It appears that it does for the Throne: that's why Cercei had all of Roberts bastards killed in Kings Landing in season 1 (or 2?).

Wasn't it revealed that it was Joffrey that ordered all of Robert's bastards killed? Cersei looked disturbed about the killings when Tyrion called her out on it and deduced that it was Joffrey that ordered them killed.


Gendry's claim to be Robert's son is pretty tenuous at best. I don't think there is any real physical evidence of his lineage. Gendry is no different than any commoner in the 7 kingdoms because Robert didn't publicly acknowledge his existence. In fact there wasn't even anything in the show that made it clear Robert was aware or even cared a lot for his bastards. I mean anyone in a certain age group that kind of looked like Robert could have as strong a claim as Gendry.


Jon is kind of in a similar position with his claim to the Iron throne. Even if the High Septon's diary that shows Rhaegar and Lyanna legally got married, there is not a lot of proof that they had a child and that Jon is that child besides a creepy cripple saying so.

[Coys1882]

My prediction is this:

A bunch of stuff happens where loyalties fall apart and ultimately Dany has the dragons light Jon up. But because of his Targ blood - he comes out unscathed just like Dany does and everyone realizes his claim to the throne as his lineage is proven.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Jon is kind of in a similar position with his claim to the Iron throne. Even if the High Septon's diary that shows Rhaegar and Lyanna legally got married, there is not a lot of proof that they had a child and that Jon is that child besides a creepy cripple saying so.

the creepy cripple's testimony was apparently good enough for all the northern lords during Littlefinger's "trial", even with nobody being able to verify his specific claims (nor Sansa's for that matter). I guess it helps when what was once the show's biggest political brain decides to convict himself instead of poking holes in the very dubious he said/she said accusations.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

My prediction is this:

A bunch of stuff happens where loyalties fall apart and ultimately Dany has the dragons light Jon up. But because of his Targ blood - he comes out unscathed just like Dany does and everyone realizes his claim to the throne as his lineage is proven.

what is even the official rule about Targaryen fire-proofness? why couldn't Viserys withstand the heat? far as anyone knows he's from that family and seems to have more of the old blood than Jon does, given their respective appearance.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

what is even the official rule about Targaryen fire-proofness? why couldn't Viserys withstand the heat? far as anyone knows he's from that family and seems to have more of the old blood than Jon does, given their respective appearance.

I think it's fire - not just heat.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I think it's fire - not just heat.

Possibly only worthy ones?

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I think it's fire - not just heat.

pretty sure it's any form of heat as Dany was unharmed by her super hot bath and picking up the hot dragon egg, while Viserys was hurt by candle wax poured on his chest.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

... Jon is that child besides a creepy cripple saying so.

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

the creepy cripple's testimony ...

I wasn't too sure if we were still using this term to reference a person that uses a wheelchair... I guess we are? Only when it's a character on TV?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Wasn't it revealed that it was Joffrey that ordered all of Robert's bastards killed? Cersei looked disturbed about the killings when Tyrion called her out on it and deduced that it was Joffrey that ordered them killed.


Gendry's claim to be Robert's son is pretty tenuous at best. I don't think there is any real physical evidence of his lineage. Gendry is no different than any commoner in the 7 kingdoms because Robert didn't publicly acknowledge his existence. In fact there wasn't even anything in the show that made it clear Robert was aware or even cared a lot for his bastards. I mean anyone in a certain age group that kind of looked like Robert could have as strong a claim as Gendry.


Jon is kind of in a similar position with his claim to the Iron throne. Even if the High Septon's diary that shows Rhaegar and Lyanna legally got married, there is not a lot of proof that they had a child and that Jon is that child besides a creepy cripple saying so.

Howland Reed, Meera and Jojens dad who stabbed Ser Dayne in the back of the neck was there when Jon was born and is alive in the current story. Does he show up for confirmation purposes or to help in the battle? Not sure but doubtful, given the precious little screen time left.

At this point, power (armies) is what will take and occupy the throne. Real, verified claim seems rather secondary and might not even matter when the living vs the dead war is over.

I actually think most of the current "players" will perish and so they'll end up creating a council of some kind for the kingdoms.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

what is even the official rule about Targaryen fire-proofness? why couldn't Viserys withstand the heat? far as anyone knows he's from that family and seems to have more of the old blood than Jon does, given their respective appearance.

Not all members of a family inherit all the special powers. It's the same with the Starks. Not all of them have the mental powers. Some have them but are less powerful than others.

It also sounds like the Targaryens weed out the ones without the powers. It'd be pretty tough to tame and ride dragons without the ability to resist heat.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I think it's fire - not just heat.

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

pretty sure it's any form of heat as Dany was unharmed by her super hot bath and picking up the hot dragon egg, while Viserys was hurt by candle wax poured on his chest.

Jon picked up a flaming lantern without much problems to kill the Wight that attacked Commander Joer Mormont.

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Jon is kind of in a similar position with his claim to the Iron throne. Even if the High Septon's diary that shows Rhaegar and Lyanna legally got married, there is not a lot of proof that they had a child and that Jon is that child besides a creepy cripple saying so.

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

the creepy cripple's testimony was apparently good enough for all the northern lords during Littlefinger's "trial", even with nobody being able to verify his specific claims (nor Sansa's for that matter). I guess it helps when what was once the show's biggest political brain decides to convict himself instead of poking holes in the very dubious he said/she said accusations.

There is also Howland Reed who was at the Tower of Joy with Ned Stark. He does appear in the fight in season 6 at the tower, made it out of the fight alive, and would have known about the baby from the tower. Jon could also just get himself roasted like the others suggest. I wonder which the show will go with.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

I wasn't too sure if we were still using this term to reference a person that uses a wheelchair... I guess we are? Only when it's a character on TV?

Kinda makes sense to use the terms used in the show. It would feel strange to refer to Bran as 'a person with mobility impairment,' just as it would calling Tyrion a little person and the women who work at Littlefinger's brothel sex workers.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Kinda makes sense to use the terms used in the show. It would feel strange to refer to Bran as 'a person with mobility impairment,' just as it would calling Tyrion a little person and the women who work at Littlefinger's brothel sex workers.

Season 1 Episode 4 title before: Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things

after: Mobility Impaired Individuals, Non-Traditional Family Unit Children, and Structurally Challenged Things?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Season 1 Episode 4 title before: Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things

after: Mobility Impaired Individuals, Non-Traditional Family Unit Children, and Structurally Challenged Things?

Should be Mobility Challenged Individuals

shame
shame
shame
shame

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Kinda makes sense to use the terms used in the show. It would feel strange to refer to Bran as 'a person with mobility impairment,' just as it would calling Tyrion a little person and the women who work at Littlefinger's brothel sex workers.

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Season 1 Episode 4 title before: Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things

after: Mobility Impaired Individuals, Non-Traditional Family Unit Children, and Structurally Challenged Things?

Originally Posted by zamler

Should be Mobility Challenged Individuals

shame
shame
shame
shame

So when it's a character in a TV show then, got ya.

For future reference, the alternatives that you have presented are just as insulting. A person who uses a wheelchair would be preferred. I don't think the use of the word cripple was necessary for making the point in the posts I originally quoted.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

So when it's a character in a TV show then, got ya.

Not exactly. It’s because it’s what they call the character on the show. It’s not appropriate when describing every character in a wheelchair on tv. I’ve never called professor x a cripple before. Stinkin’ mutie, maybe, but never cripple.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Not exactly. It’s because it’s what they call the character on the show. It’s not appropriate when describing every character in a wheelchair on tv. I’ve never called professor x a cripple before. Stinkin’ mutie, maybe, but never cripple.

In the context of the show as written in the script, not in describing the character on a public forum. It was not needed in the posts I originally quoted. Sad to see that many don't see it as a pejorative, even in the context.

And the characters name is Bran, not cripple.

[JohnnyB]

I read that as the poster trying to convey how the people in the world of GoT would view Bran, and many do view him as a "creepy cripple" with the pejorative use of the term intended.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I read that as the poster trying to convey how the people in the world of GoT would view Bran, and many do view him as a "creepy cripple" with the pejorative use of the term intended.

Ahh, you may be right. I don't really care, just found it odd when I first read it, not so much now.