Francis with Kerr: Who is going?

[Moneyhands23]

I hate to say it though. If ppl outside the "room" can pinpoint guys who dont care about winning just stats and their position in the line up. Then the Coach and GM should have known and sat them in the pressbox for weeks, or traded them asap.

If true the player/players suck, but the management/coach are guilty of letting these guys go about it without consequence.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think he’s a great offensive player but flawed otherwise and doesn’t do all he can to maximize his talent

to me that is Dougie Hamilton, sure he has the stats but his compete level and brain cramps make him a guy i dont think you win with. Johnny shows way more intensity and seems to hate to lose more than hamilton.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think he’s a great offensive player but flawed otherwise and doesn’t do all he can to maximize his talent

You can say that about a lot of the league's top offensive players (of which he is one).

However his ability to make everyone around him better and contribute to generating a high percentage of the team's total offense makes the suggestion it might be difficult to win with him peculiar.

[Toonage]

I expect a lot of talk like this right up until a coaching change is made. At that point you have to wait and see what the results are. No coaching change prior to say, the draft, then yeah this warrants further discussion and concern.

[Otto-matic]

I think this is why this team needs a hard ass coach who can make players fall into line. You care about your individual stats? Have fun being stapled to the bench if you aren't pulling your weight.

[burn_baby_burn]

Personally, I think trading Johnny would be a huge mistake. How often do you get a player like him in the fourth round? Add that he has a very cap friendly contract for his talent level. All that considered, you will never get the equal compensation in return on a trade. Prospects are coin flips at best and we don’t have anyone in the organization that can fill his shoes if he left.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

to me that is Dougie Hamilton, sure he has the stats but his compete level and brain cramps make him a guy i dont think you win with. Johnny shows way more intensity and seems to hate to lose more than hamilton.

I don’t disagree
I think within a game Johnny is intense and hates to lose but sometimes that manifests itself in bad decisions
But I don’t think he has shown he’s willing to do the work off the ice to be his best
His refusal to really have a proper diet is a red flag

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Gaudreau isn't going anywhere.

Personal Opinion or are you infering you're aware of Francis's "list".

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Timbo

I see where Jiri might be coming from on the boldest issue. I think we can win with Johnny however I have difficulty seeing us winning with him leading us to winning.

This is a team sport, and we have a group of very good young players maturing.

The suggestion he might be a detriment to winning because he can't single-handedly win it all for us is ridiculous.

He's a 6.5 Million dollar winger. In no way is he all our eggs in one basket.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

You can say that about a lot of the league's top offensive players (of which he is one).

However his ability to make everyone around him better and contribute to generating a high percentage of the team's total offense makes the suggestion it might be difficult to win with him peculiar.

Most teams that win have elite two way players
Johnny isn’t that
Is he more like Phil Kessel or Anze Kopitar
I think kessel is a very fair comparison

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don’t disagree
I think within a game Johnny is intense and hates to lose but sometimes that manifests itself in bad decisions
But I don’t think he has shown he’s willing to do the work off the ice to be his best
His refusal to really have a proper diet is a red flag

Im okay with trading Gaudreau. Im okay with trading Hamilton. If these really talented players are in fact some of the individualistic mentality guys then ship em out.

Goes for every single player on the team. If you're putting your personal stats on a pedastal over everything else, buh-bye.

[nik-]

Just because Johnny isn't an elite two way player doesn't mean he's a problem. A team needs a guy like him. They also need elite two way players. Don't punch a major hole in your team to try and fill another one.

Monahan and Bennett are the people that we needed to be elite two way players.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think he’s a great offensive player but flawed otherwise and doesn’t do all he can to maximize his talent

What do you think is flawed with him and what would you like to see him do more of?

Also how do you reconcile your opinions of him with statements like these:

Red Wings coach Jeff Blashill had the chance to coach Gaudreau in the world championships this past spring and liked him even more than he had before.

"I loved him," Blashill said. "I didn't know how hard he worked every single day. His track, he's been well-coached, his track is awesome. He works so hard on the back check. I knew he had real good ability, I'd seen him play since he was a youngster going back to midgets but then in Dubuque for sure. I was so impressed with his work ethic and his will to win. It's awesome. Can't say enough good things about him."

In 2010-11 with the USHL's Dubuque Fighting Saints, Gaudreau had 36 goals and 36 assists in 60 games.

Last season, Gaudreau had 18 goals among 61 points in 72 games.

With Team USA in the world championships, Gaudreau was tied for sixth in scoring with six goals and five assists in eight games.

Dylan Larkin had two goals and eight assists in those eight games.

"You learn how good he is," Larkin said. "I played with him both at the world championships and the World Cup. He's so good at seeing the ice and moving around and cutting back. He's probably one of the best at cutting back and kind of self-cycling. He's a dangerous player every time he's on the ice. What amazes me is his stick is so short that guys try and reach and go stick on puck and he just finds a way to pull it so close to his body and go underneath their sticks. It's amazing. Fun player to watch."

What is less fun is trying to find a way to defend Gaudreau.

"You got to skate with him, you've got to move your feet to defend," Larkin said. "I've seen him avoid tons of hits, you can't really get a hold of him. But you got to skate to defend him."

Said Justin Abdelkader: "It's tough. You want to make sure you're staying above him and making it hard, try and take his time and space away, not giving him room like players like."

Gaudreau has four assists in five career games against the Wings.

The Flames are 5-0-0-0 when Gaudreau collects two or more points.

"I think just his shiftiness, being a smaller guy, bigger guys have a real big problem kind of getting in front of him and playing physical on him," Scott Wilson said. "The style he plays, that's really one of the only things that would frustrate a guy like that is to play physical on him. You just got to be careful when he's out there, kind of like most of the other top guys in the league, have kind of a second awareness when somebody like that is on the ice."

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/no...au/c-292798194

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Most teams that win have elite two way players
Johnny isn’t that
Is he more like Phil Kessel or Anze Kopitar

Kessel (despite the fact that's a poor comparison in so many ways) has been in Conn Smythe territory and the Pens wouldn't have won back to back cups without him.

The suggestion we can't win with Johnny because he isn't Crosby or Kopitar is extremely disingenuous.

That would be like saying you're not sure you can win with Patrick Kane (early in the Hawks last incarnation before their cups) because he's not Pavel Datsyuk.

Just not seeing it at all. He's one of the best wingers in the league.

[flambers]

I would guess one of the players who will be traded is Hamilton.

Personally I believe the core will need to be changed somewhat

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Thing wont work for me.

All I know is, things are going to be very interesting this off season.

Try this one and go to about the 2 hour mark.



https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big...algary-flames/

[dirk diggler]

there have been way too many games this year where Johnny is one of the only noticeable guys out there but sure lets trade one of the only offensive players on a team that cant score.... that is a trade we wont win, it will be hall/larsson all over again.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Most teams that win have elite two way players
Johnny isn’t that
Is he more like Phil Kessel or Anze Kopitar

This is my thinking as well.
GoJetsGo you are correct that it is a team game and he is great value.

Is it possible he would be better slotted as a complimentary player?

[CliffFletcher]

The guys who I'd put in the 'seem to care more about stats than winning' camp are:

Monahan
Hamilton
Ferland
maybe Brodie

Monahan for his lackadisical play without the puck. Hamilton for his lackadiscal play without the puck and lack of discipline. Ferland for thinking he's a pure sniper and shying away from the heavy forecheck game he's shown he's capable of. Brodie for his... to be honest, I don't know what Brodie's problem is, but maybe it's a lack of buy-in.

This is all from observing their on-ice play. There could be off-ice stuff with different Flames players we don't know about like fitness, partying, etc.

I'd be shocked if Gaudreau is moved. But I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Monahan and/or Hamilton dealt.

[Poe969]

If the Flames signed Tavares, Johnny wouldn't be "the" man and I think he'd do better. Phil Kessel all over again, in TO he was relied on to be "the guy" but couldn't be then he goes to a team with other stars to take the pressure off and he's amazing.