Edmonton Christian school: LGBQT's have mental illnesses

[foshizzle11]

Wow, I jumped into this thread and am a little bit surprised where it has gone from the OP. LGBQT issues in Edmonton to this?

Can we get back to the issue the OP brought up?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Islam condemns it...What the #### are you talking about? You clearly have no idea. There's no other religion that I know of other than Islam that advocates mutilating females genitals.

Response?

You need to do a lot more reading.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

No religions are in favor of female mutilations and Islam actually condemns it.[/url]

No. This is a bald-faced lie supported by apologists.

So is there any credence to the claim that Islam supports FGM? In fact, there is. To name two, the major collections of the Hadith Sahih Muslim 3:684 and Abu Dawud 41:5251 support the practice. Of the four major schools of thought in Sunni Islam, two mandate FGM while two merely recommend it. Unsurprisingly, in the Muslim-majority countries dominated by the schools which mandate the practice, there is evidence of widespread female circumcision. Of particular note: None of the major schools condemn the practice.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...d-this-is-why/

We can't address these problems with obscurantism. 98% of Indonesian Muslim women are subjected to FGM. Denying the motivations behind the practice - religious and cultural both - simply allows it to continue unchecked.

Still not sure why this thread moved to Islam but that absolutely needed a response.

[calgaryblood]

Do you understand what Hadiths are? You clearly don't. You will not find anything about fgm in the Quran.

Christians and Jews also have sects that favour FGM and do it until this day, does that mean both those religions support fgm?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Islam condemns it...What the #### are you talking about? You clearly have no idea. There's no other religion that I know of other than Islam that advocates mutilating females genitals.

Response?

You clearly didn't read anything I sent you. If you're not going to bother reading then don't bother replying.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Do you understand what Hadiths are? You clearly don't. You will not find anything about fgm in the Quran.

Christians and Jews also have sects that favour FGM and do it until this day, does that mean both those religions support fgm?

Actually the ignorance is on you here. Hadiths are collections of reports about Mohammed, and are largely treated by Muslims in a way that is similar to how Christians treat the Bible. The two largest sects of Islam are Sunni and Shia. They don't agree completely in which hadiths should be followed, but the both follow and accept hadiths as athrntic, and therefore an example that must be followed. Both group condemn Quranists that hold to the Quran only.

[peter12]

These threads make the figurative baby Jesus cry.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Ahem, if I may, religion should have no place in a society where people think logically and attempt to make decisions that will benefit everyone without prejudice.

You people who hide behind religion are weak. Period.

You're not using your brains to their full capacity.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Muslims don't perform female mutilations. It's culturally done and some happen to be Muslims. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

http://www.meforum.org/1629/is-femal...slamic-problem

New information from Iraqi Kurdistan raises the possibility that the problem is more prevalent in the Middle East than previously believed and that FGM is far more tied to religion than many Western academics and activists admit. Many Muslims and academics in the West take pains to insist that the practice is not rooted in religion[1] but rather in culture. "When one considers that the practice does not prevail and is much condemned in countries like Saudi Arabia, the center of the Islamic world, it becomes clear that the notion that it is an Islamic practice is a false one," Haseena Lockhat, a child clinical psychologist at North Warwickshire Primary Care Trust, wrote.[2] True, FGM occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa. And in Arab states such as Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation,[3] both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit.
But at the village level, those who commit the practice believe it to be religiously mandated. Religion is not only theology but also practice. And the practice is widespread throughout the Middle East. Many diplomats, international organization workers, and Arabists argue that the problem is localized to North Africa or sub-Saharan Africa,[4] but they are wrong. The problem is pervasive throughout the Levant, the Fertile Crescent, and the Arabian Peninsula, and among many immigrants to the West from these countries. Silence on the issue is less reflective of the absence of the problem than insufficient freedom for feminists and independent civil society to raise the issue.

and from Ayaan Hirsi Ali

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/...e-8534299.html


Hirsi Ali says FGM is a symptom of the “whole virginity obsession” within largely but not exclusively Muslim communities abroad, and sometimes here. Forced marriage, honour killings and child brides are similar horrors related to a “purity” required in women but not men. “Actually it should be a man’s campaign. Why do they need a virgin? Why do they need a woman whose genitals have been demolished? Is that the only way to express their manhood?”

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Wow, I jumped into this thread and am a little bit surprised where it has gone from the OP. LGBQT issues in Edmonton to this?

Can we get back to the issue the OP brought up?

Yes please.

[CliffFletcher]

It seems pretty clear to me that even where religion itself is in decline, people are drawn to ideologies that serve much the same psychological and social role of religion. Namely a simplistic and emotionally-satisfying model for how people should behave, the division of people into the sinners and the saved (us vs them, oppressors vs oppressed, etc), and the use of shaming and other coercive techniques to bring others into line with the belief system.

As for this school, they're clearly preaching a backwards and intolerant message. However, the passionate calls to shut them down and silence them betray a certain hypocrisy. It's troubling to trace the arc of liberalization in our society, from the moralizing conformity of traditional conservatism a century ago, to the individualistic liberalism of the late 20th century, to a new orthodoxy and conformity around social issues.

Genuine tolerance is remarkably rare. We seem to have very strong innate impulses to condemn and shame anyone who breaks ranks with social norms.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Do you understand what Hadiths are? You clearly don't. You will not find anything about fgm in the Quran.

Yes, I do. You, obviously, do not, though simply googling it would solve that issue. You have been taken in by apologists, and are now exhibiting motivated reasoning and carrying water for them. Young girls are being mutilated in the millions, and you are effectively apologizing for the perpetrators. That's disgusting. Doing so as a result of having been misinformed is understandable, but stubbornly refusing to look into the matter and adjust those views erodes the moral ground you're standing on.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Equally? Scientology = Buddhism ;-) of

Yes what's the difference?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Yes what's the difference?

The different beliefs, which give rise to different behaviours. Buddhism is different from Scientology, in that Buddhists don't try to ruin your life for criticizing their beliefs, whereas Scientologists believe this makes you an "enemy" of the Church, leading some of them to hire private investigators to follow you around and find dirt to use against you. Scientology is different from Christianity, in that Scientology views abortion as a personal choice, whereas most sects of Christianity view it as a mortal sin, which leads some Christians to murder abortion doctors. And so on.

Religions may all be wrong, but if so, they're certainly wrong about different things and to different degrees, because they each make mutually incompatible claims. These different claims lead to different behaviours from their respective adherents. Suggesting that they're all equally wrong or equally bad makes no sense given how different their tenets are.

[Fuzz]

^

Can we get a ranking? That would make for some good internet-grade arguing.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

^

Can we get a ranking? That would make for some good internet-grade arguing.

A ranking of what? How wrong they are, or how bad they are for people to follow? Obviously either is basically impossible to quantify except in some narrow, limited cases; for example, Sam Harris often uses Mormonism vs Christianity to demonstrate how one religion can be objectively less likely to be factual than another in making claims about reality:

Mormonism, it seems to me, is — objectively — just a little more idiotic than Christianity is. It has to be, because Mormonism is simply Christianity, plus some additional stupid ideas.

For instance, all Christians believe that Jesus will return. Mormons, however, think Jesus is going to return to earth and administer his Thousand years of Peace, at least part of the time, from the state of Missouri. Why does this make Mormonism less likely to be true than Christianity? Because whatever probability you assign to Jesus’ coming back, you have to assign a lesser probability to his coming back and keeping a summer home in Jackson County, Missouri.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It seems pretty clear to me that even where religion itself is in decline, people are drawn to ideologies that serve much the same psychological and social role of religion. Namely a simplistic and emotionally-satisfying model for how people should behave, the division of people into the sinners and the saved (us vs them, oppressors vs oppressed, etc), and the use of shaming and other coercive techniques to bring others into line with the belief system.

As for this school, they're clearly preaching a backwards and intolerant message. However, the passionate calls to shut them down and silence them betray a certain hypocrisy. It's troubling to trace the arc of liberalization in our society, from the moralizing conformity of traditional conservatism a century ago, to the individualistic liberalism of the late 20th century, to a new orthodoxy and conformity around social issues.

Genuine tolerance is remarkably rare. We seem to have very strong innate impulses to condemn and shame anyone who breaks ranks with social norms.

I characterize this issue differently than you do. This isn't just enforcement of social norms. The issue is whether or not the province should do more to protect a particularly vulnerable community: LGBT teens at a Christian high school. There are real interests at stake.

[Flames_Gimp]

The only thing anyone should worship is our star, the true provider of life on earth.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

The only thing anyone should worship is our star, the true provider of life on earth.

Agreed: glory be to Ra. We are his humble servants.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

A ranking of what? How wrong they are, or how bad they are for people to follow? Obviously either is basically impossible to quantify except in some narrow, limited cases; for example, Sam Harris often uses Mormonism vs Christianity to demonstrate how one religion can be objectively less likely to be factual than another in making claims about reality:

It was a joke. Obviously their isn't really a way to rank which ones are subjectively worse. Though I'd start with Scientology.