Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Why does Bennett have more upside than Jankowski? If you think Bennett has it in him to be a #1C, why wouldn't Janko also have as high a ceiling, given that he's bigger and debatably already better.

Jankowski is older than Bennett. Bennett is better than Janko was at the same age. Hence why some feel that Bennett has a higher ceiling, that plus draft position.

Hard to say though, at the moment I don’t think there is much difference between the two value-wise. Janko is less of a liability out there IMO... but I really hope Bennett puts it together. When he’s on, I really like the way he plays.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Jankowski is older than Bennett. Bennett is better than Janko was at the same age. Hence why some feel that Bennett has a higher ceiling, that plus draft position.

Hard to say though, at the moment I don’t think there is much difference between the two value-wise. Janko is less of a liability out there IMO... but I really hope Bennett puts it together. When he’s on, I really like the way he plays.

I don't hate what this guy is saying, and I mean he's on the same island as me, its a small place I have to agree

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Would you trade Jankowski for a 2nd?

Bennett is younger and has more upside. Yet, just because he was a high pick and people are disappointed that he hasn't (yet) become what they hoped, people want to dump him.

I just don't get it.

Jankowski can play center at the NHL level, while I would have to say that ship has sailed for Sam Bennett. He is not an NHL center. That much should be clear.

Bennett is younger, but he also has 241 games under his belt. There is a school of thought out there that basically says by 250 games in the NHL, you know what you have in a player. Sure there are exemptions but in most cases this is true, regardless of age.

It's also not about 'dumping' a player it's about asset management. In my view, Bennett's issues aren't who he is playing with or coaching it's that he doesn't see/think the game at a level that would indicate he can be a top 6 player in this league. Game after game he looks lost (bad penalties, plays that die on his stick, seems to lose his balance frequently). At this level, he's a third (at best)/fourth line player. Best he plays a clean game and try to stay out of the box, if he can.

It's unlikely Sam will start this season with a 15 game pointless streak because he will have better line mates than last, Ryan and Frolik I think. But what do you think fans from other teams would say? What is Sam Bennett's reputation outside of Calgary? 30 point player? 40 point player? 25 point tweener??

Hypothetically, if the Montreal Canadiens were to trade their second round pick for a former first round pick who is coming off of back to back 26 point seasons, would that not be similar to the Flames giving up a second for Lazar, or the Flames receiving a second for Baretschi? I would wager the fan base would, generally, not be enthused. I don't think any teams fan base would. The reaction would either be 'meh' or 'wtf'. Bennett is in reclamation territory, even with the Flames.

I would like like to see Sam succeed here, but it looks grim. My call is Dube is in his spot by the start of next year at the latest.

[Snuffleupagus]

I think by November Bennett will have completed his treatment for Gulutzanitis, by the new year he should be confident and back to normal.

[Flames1217]

I see alot of posters stating that Bennett cant play center but if Janko had the same wingers that Sam did i bet he would have done no better.

Janko has a great shot but last year in my eyes Bennett drove that line. I also believe Bennett is the better defensive forward but that Janko has better awareness.

Anywho dont really want to start a debate but i camt wait and see if Bennett can finally throw up a 45 point season to put a sock in a ton pf peoples mouths.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

I see alot of posters stating that Bennett cant play center but if Janko had the same wingers that Sam did i bet he would have done no better.

Janko has a great shot but last year in my eyes Bennett drove that line. I also believe Bennett is the better defensive forward but that Janko has better awareness.

Anywho dont really want to start a debate but i camt wait and see if Bennett can finally throw up a 45 point season to put a sock in a ton pf peoples mouths.

Lol. Neither of them drove any line last season. Without jagr or someone else movibg down to carry them that line was completely useless last season, hence Treliving going out and acquiring/signing two centres in the off-season.
Our third line was an enormous weak point last season and probably was one of the main reasons we missed the playoffs. Give up any hope you have of Bennett crossing 35 points unless were unfairly saddling backlund with him. Janko seems destined for 4th line centre max this year. I personally would have preferred trading both

[VilleN]

I disagree with your assessment. Curious as to why you’d want to trade Janko after a pretty successful rookie campaign... seems like that would be an odd decision from management... what would you hope to get in return that would be better? (Please don’t say 2nd round pick).

[Scroopy Noopers]

Are some posters blind to the roster they have put together!? This team isn’t currently interested in trading roster players for picks. Holy crap.

“Give me something shiny!!!!!”

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Are some posters blind to the roster they have put together!? This team isn’t currently interested in trading roster players for picks. Holy crap.

“Give me something shiny!!!!!”

Nah that's not at all what I said. Stop reading in bs to posts. I would package one (whichever the other team prefers as I highly doubt either will amount to anything worthwhile) with Brodie and upgrade our top RD position, which I now think is extremely weak. Brodie has been brutal for the last two seasons and I think trusting him to magically turn around might be Trelivings biggest and last mistake with our team.

I would look at Tampa, minny, or dare I say ottawa

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Nah that's not at all what I said. Stop reading in bs to posts. I would package one (whichever the other team prefers as I highly doubt either will amount to anything worthwhile) with Brodie and upgrade our top RD position, which I now think is extremely weak. Brodie has been brutal for the last two seasons and I think trusting him to magically turn around might be Trelivings biggest and last mistake with our team.

I would look at Tampa, minny, or dare I say ottawa

What makes you think Janko won’t amount to anything? He had a good rookie season, has size, IQ, good hands... I think he, at the very least, deserves another season to see if he can take it up a notch. I just don’t see the logic in trading away a promising young centre... we drafted him, developed him, he has shown promise during his first season... centre depth is a huge asset.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Nah that's not at all what I said. Stop reading in bs to posts. I would package one (whichever the other team prefers as I highly doubt either will amount to anything worthwhile) with Brodie and upgrade our top RD position, which I now think is extremely weak. Brodie has been brutal for the last two seasons and I think trusting him to magically turn around might be Trelivings biggest and last mistake with our team.

I would look at Tampa, minny, or dare I say ottawa

I don’t recall mentioning your post.

[Bingo]

Everyone is disappointed that Sam Bennett isn't pushing Sean Monahan for the rights to anchor the top line as a center... to me that was the expected result to be honest.

It's likely not going to happen.

Can he get to a second line winger level? I think the jury is still out on that one.

- His goals/60 was up from the previous season
- His points/60 was up from the previous season
- Shot attempts/60 were up significantly
- Scoring chances/60 were up significantly

But

- his shooting percentage was off (below 4th liner levels)
- his on ice shooting percentage tanked

Now add in a better quality group of forwards and a likely boost in skill to play with him with a player that seemed to at least be turning a corner, and perhaps could have used a bounce or two and maybe just maybe he's heading back to the 40 point level instead of 25

40 points got you 145th place in forward scoring last year ... 31 teams says that's player 4.5 on the average team.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Everyone is disappointed that Sam Bennett isn't pushing Sean Monahan for the rights to anchor the top line as a center... to me that was the expected result to be honest.

It's likely not going to happen.

Can he get to a second line winger level? I think the jury is still out on that one.

- His goals/60 was up from the previous season
- His points/60 was up from the previous season
- Shot attempts/60 were up significantly
- Scoring chances/60 were up significantly

But

- his shooting percentage was off (below 4th liner levels)
- his on ice shooting percentage tanked

Now add in a better quality group of forwards and a likely boost in skill to play with him with a player that seemed to at least be turning a corner, and perhaps could have used a bounce or two and maybe just maybe he's heading back to the 40 point level instead of 25

40 points got you 145th place in forward scoring last year ... 31 teams says that's player 4.5 on the average team.

His shooting percentage last year was miles off his career percentage, and this combined with his offensive zone penalties illustrates how he was trying to do everything on his line, without any significant support from linemates (shooting from anywhere, holding on to the puck too long because nobody is open in the zone to pass to). There is no reason to expect that someone of Bennett's age should be falling off a cliff. A better balance of equally skilled linemates and a regression to the mean for bad luck (goalposts etc) will hopefully result in Bennett being a 40-50 point scorer this season, which would put him in 2nd-3rd line territory, depending on the depth of the team in question.

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Nah that's not at all what I said. Stop reading in bs to posts. I would package one (whichever the other team prefers as I highly doubt either will amount to anything worthwhile) with Brodie and upgrade our top RD position, which I now think is extremely weak. Brodie has been brutal for the last two seasons and I think trusting him to magically turn around might be Trelivings biggest and last mistake with our team.

I would look at Tampa, minny, or dare I say ottawa

There is no reason to believe that Brodie and Gio will not be as good as they were under Hartley, unless Gio starts to lose a step. In any case, at his age, Brodie should still be as good on the right side as he was before. He was just never as good on the left side, and the deterioration of his performance perfectly correlates with being separated from Gio and being put on the left side.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

...he was trying to do everything on his line, without any significant support from linemates (shooting from anywhere, holding on to the puck too long because nobody is open in the zone to pass to).

Bennett does all that stuff regardless of who he's playing with.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Bennett does all that stuff regardless of who he's playing with.

He didn't with Backlund and Frolik. He did with Janko and Hathaway/Brouwer/Jagr.

I rest my case.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

He didn't with Backlund and Frolik. He did with Janko and Hathaway/Brouwer/Jagr.

I rest my case.

Bennett and Jankowski would've both really benefited from a year of healthy Jagr. Had he come to camp, been in shape, and had the time to get going, instead of parachuting in last minute, Jagr could've been nearly as effective as he was in Florida.

There were nights when that trio was the best line on the team by a considerable margin, and when Jagr left, neither managed to get things back on track.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

He didn't with Backlund and Frolik. He did with Janko and Hathaway/Brouwer/Jagr.

I rest my case.

Joe Colborne scored 44 points with Backlund and Frolik.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Joe Colborne scored 44 points with Backlund and Frolik.

Except he didn't. Of Colborne's 44 points, Backlund was in on 9 of them, Frolik was in on 5, and both being in on 3 events, meaning as a line, they contributed 1/4 of his points scored. Colborne pretty much rolled through the lineup, starting on a line with Jones and Stajan. He played with everyone was wasn't consistent with anyone that season. Bennett was in on 6, Stajan, Monahan, Hudler, and Ferland all were in on five events. Colborne got around like the flu that season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except he didn't. Of Colborne's 44 points, Backlund was in on 9 of them, Frolik was in on 5, and both being in on 3 events, meaning as a line, they contributed 1/4 of his points scored. Colborne pretty much rolled through the lineup, starting on a line with Jones and Stajan. He played with everyone was wasn't consistent with anyone that season. Bennett was in on 6, Stajan, Monahan, Hudler, and Ferland all were in on five events. Colborne got around like the flu that season.

And who cares who he played with ... the dude shot 19% that year. He maxed out his shots on goal that season and hit for an almost double his average shooting percentage.

Thank God Treliving didn't Bouma him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And who cares who he played with ... the dude shot 19% that year. He maxed out his shots on goal that season and hit for an almost double his average shooting percentage.

Thank God Treliving didn't Bouma him.

I completely agree with you. I was just pointing out an inaccuracy that Colborne scored all those points on one line, like Backlund and Frolik were responsible for that production. They clearly were not. Colborne did it on his own, playing with every line combination imaginable, and had a unrepeatable career year. It was wise that Treliving walked away. Kudos to him for doing so.