But hey, keep doubling down on openly expressing contempt for poor whites. I'm sure there's nothing bad that could come from it. After all, the solution to hatred against one group is to express hatred for another. Hate cancels out hate, right?
Being poor is hard regardless of your race. There's no reason to think a poor white American living in a trailer is any worse of a person than a poor black American living in a project. But then, reason doesn't really play a part in this stuff, does it? You're surfing on the same pleasure-nodes of tribal hatred as neo-nazis are. Feels good to shut off your brain and make moral judgements on whole categories of people numbering in the 10s of millions, doesn't it?
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Being poor is hard regardless of your race. There's no reason to think a poor white American living in a trailer is any worse of a person than a poor black American living in a project. But then, reason doesn't really play a part in this stuff, does it? You're surfing on the same pleasure-nodes of tribal hatred as neo-nazis are. Feels good to shut off your brain and make moral judgements on whole categories of people numbering in the 10s of millions, doesn't it?
lol whatever you say Cliff. I didn't realize you were such a champion for poor people of all races.
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood
Looks like you'll need one long before I will. May I suggest deflection king?
What would we do without poor, uneducated white people to mock?
You spelled "Nazi" wrong.
Further in the article:
the party’s former spokesperson, who described the incident as a “white trash circus” told The Daily Beast.
Police arrested Heimbach on the spot and charged him with battery, intimidation, strangulation, and domestic battery committed in the physical presence of a child. (The Heimbachs’ two young children were present when he allegedly assaulted his wife.) The police report lists Heimbach’s occupation as “white nationalist.”
Last edited by chemgear; 03-15-2018 at 08:52 AM.
Reason: Quote formatting
Vance raises questions such as the responsibility of his family and people for their own misfortune. Vance blames hillbilly culture and its supposed encouragement of social rot.
Conservatives expressed admiration for Hillbilly Elegy,[citation needed] particularly The American Conservative contributor and blogger Rod Dreher, who said that Vance "draws conclusions…that may be hard for some people to take. But Vance has earned the right to make those judgments. This was his life. He speaks with authority that has been extremely hard won."[5] However, the following month, Dreher posted about why liberals loved the book.[6] New York Post columnist and editor of Commentary John Podhoretz described the book as among the year's most provocative.[7] The book was also positively received by conservatives such as New York Times op-ed columnist Ross Douthat,[8] National Review columnist Mona Charen[9] and National Review editor and Slate columnist Reihan Salam.[10]
By contrast, some liberal commentators condemned the book and Vance personally.[citation needed] Jared Yates Sexton of Salon criticized Vance for his "damaging rhetoric" and endorsing policies used to "gut the poor." He concludes by accusing Vance of racism and white privilege, saying he "totally discounts the role racism played in the white working class's opposition to President Obama."[11] Sarah Jones of The New Republic mocked Vance as "the false prophet of Blue America," dismissing him as "a flawed guide to this world" and the book as little more than "a list of myths about welfare queens repackaged as a primer on the white working class."[12] The New York Times wrote that his direct confrontation on a social taboo is admirable regardless of whether the reader agrees with his conclusions. The newspaper writes that Vance's subject is despair and his argument is more generous in that it blames fatalism and learned helplessness rather than indolence.[1] A 2017 Brooking Institution report noted that Hillbilly Elegy was a "raw, emotional portrait of growing up in and eventually out of a poor rural community riddled by drug addiction and instability." Vance's account anecdotally confirmed the report's conclusion that family stability is essential to upward mobility.[13]
So no one feels it's touch ironic that people who tip toe around the failings of other racial groups find it perfectly acceptable to #### on white people at every opportunity? And that maybe, just maybe, behaving in such a way is step backwards from the racial equality they yearn for?
The New York Times wrote that his direct confrontation on a social taboo is admirable regardless of whether the reader agrees with his conclusions. The newspaper writes that Vance's subject is despair and his argument is more generous in that it blames fatalism and learned helplessness rather than indolence.
It's definitely worth a read, and I think the NYT hits the nail on the head with this assessment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata
So no one feels it's touch ironic that people who tip toe around the failings of other racial groups find it perfectly acceptable to #### on white people at every opportunity? And that maybe, just maybe, behaving in such a way is step backwards from the racial equality they yearn for?
No, because that's not the mode of thought that exists. It's not really about prejudice based on skin colour at base. It's only about that as an incidence of oppression as a group, and even that isn't based on real factors but on ingroup membership and loyalty demonstrations and other tribal motives. I haven't posted a super long two hour youtube video that maybe two people will probably pay attention to in some time, so here: this is an incredible listen on why we do things as opposed to what our alleged motives are (it's actually more like an hour once you skip the intro and ignore the audience questions if that helps).
Anyway in this context it's a fairly inexpensive tactic to simply ignore Cliff's point and say "no, we're just talking about Nazis, not any other white people", as if those same people crapping on him don't treat "uneducated white people from the south" with utter contempt as a class. If there were a thread about Isis and someone came in and made a joke denigrating Arabs, I suspect the people scoffing at this would have a different reaction.
And frankly, there are some broad brushes you can paint with there to justify contempt. As a group, poor white people from the south are more likely on average to hold some pretty terrible views, including racism, science denialism, a fetish for guns, and so forth. But Cliff's point, I think, is more that there's a double-standard, because many similar such things are also true of poor blacks from the south, and it's casually acceptable to only use one of those two as a punchline.
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Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 03-15-2018 at 09:45 AM.
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So no one feels it's touch ironic that people who tip toe around the failings of other racial groups find it perfectly acceptable to #### on white people at every opportunity? And that maybe, just maybe, behaving in such a way is step backwards from the racial equality they yearn for?
And frankly, there are some broad brushes you can paint with there to justify contempt. As a group, poor white people from the south are more likely on average to hold some pretty terrible views, including racism, science denialism, a fetish for guns, and so forth. But Cliff's point, I think, is more that there's a double-standard, because many similar such things are also true of poor blacks from the south, and it's casually acceptable to only use one of those two as a punchline.
Feeling contempt for the losers and screw-ups in society is pretty natural. We all do it. However, we know we shouldn't. We know it's arrogant and uncharitable and demeaning. And we want to feel like we're good people.
But there's a way we can do both. If we publicly express regret and compassion and empathy for some people at the bottom of the ladder - say, black or indigenous people - then it turns out that gives us social license to express derision and contempt for some other people at the bottom of the ladder - say, uneducated whites. We get to be seen as good and compassionate people (and maybe even trick ourselves into feeling like good and compassionate people) while also giving rein to our uglier impulses. Win-win!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 03-15-2018 at 10:49 AM.
Is liberalism really so out of favour these days that its basic tenets have to be explained to people over and over again?
Jesus Christ, Cliff, no one is referring to all poor white people as trash. We're referring to the ones who hold racist views and engage in trashy incestuous relationships as trash.
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Jesus Christ, Cliff, no one is referring to all poor white people as trash. We're referring to the ones who hold racist views and engage in trashy incestuous relationships as trash.
Context is for the regressive left.
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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Just the sort of articulate and nuanced answer I was expecting.
"I can't explain myself but I've been conditioned to think this way, so I'm pretty sure it's correct."
He should have just used some throwaway troll bait like "Lol, okay there, Tucker".
CHL nailed it. My take is that the term "white trash" exists specifically to disparage the lower class of an identifiable group. We can and should talk about neo-Nazis being a negative element in society without catching the poor and uneducated in the crossfire; there may be an overlap there, demographically, but that doesn't excuse the imprecision, nor the denigrating term used. It's like someone referring to ISIS as a bunch of "sand monkeys", a disparaging term for people from the Middle East.
All terriers are dogs, but not all dogs are terriers. But in this case, not all poor, uneducated white people are neo-Nazis, nor are all neo-Nazis poor, uneducated white people. In fact, that's probably one of the more alarming takeaways from this: there are affluent and educated people among the ranks of America's white supremacist movement.
Being poor is hard regardless of your race. There's no reason to think a poor white American living in a trailer is any worse of a person than a poor black American living in a project. But then, reason doesn't really play a part in this stuff, does it? You're surfing on the same pleasure-nodes of tribal hatred as neo-nazis are. Feels good to shut off your brain and make moral judgements on whole categories of people numbering in the 10s of millions, doesn't it?
You're probably right on this, so for what it's worth I dismissed your first post with an eye roll, but came around to your point with this post.
Just a clarification -- my use of the term "white trash" was referenced from the article itself. I've now added the URL of the article to my original post. Did not mean to disparage low-income people, whatever their colour.
Last edited by snootchiebootchies; 03-15-2018 at 12:09 PM.
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Jesus Christ, Cliff, no one is referring to all poor white people as trash. We're referring to the ones who hold racist views and engage in trashy incestuous relationships as trash.
Look here pal, just because your cousins are ugly doesn't mean you can look down on the rest of us.
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