I just think Druckmann's ego isn't likely to let him fix the many structural and pacing problems with Part 2. This season was really very faithful to the first game, and in the case of the first game that was mostly a good thing. That's really not the case going forward, in my opinion. But he seems to take praise (or fawning) to heart readily and dismiss criticism, and there's been plenty of praise to reinforce his views about his own storytelling abilities over the course of this season's run. I think it's going to suffer from basically everything the second game did.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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TLOU2 bugged me like that too. As soon as I finished the game, I felt like I would have enjoyed the game even more and it would have much more replay value if the game was ordered just the slightest bit differently.
I recently finished TLOU2 per an earlier comment in this thread, and I can't agree more. Having the player play as Abby was an interesting choice, and obviously Druckmann wanted the players to see things from her perspective and sympathize with her, but when you've had the entire game up to that point build her up as an absolutely horrible antagonist, you don't feel a lot of sympathy. Not as much as Druckmann probably wanted the player to. And it's because everything was presented out of chronological order. If I had played as "young" Abby to begin with, and weaved her story in between Ellie's, it would have made me much much more sympathetic.
Last edited by timun; 04-03-2023 at 03:49 PM.
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I think I've read somewhere that Druckmann stated that some of the structure was down to the videogame format, meaning that because of things like the upgrade system it didn't make sense for them to flip-flop between the two main characters. In the series this will obviously not be an issue, so I'd expect a lot of structural and pacing changes in season 2.
With most of the second game taking place in Seattle, it makes sense to shoot in that area.
You'd have to think they'll still shoot some of the scenes that take place in Jackson around Canmore. I've also thought the part of the game where they go to the museum would make sense to shoot in Drumheller.
They could probably fake Jackson in a BC mountain town like Whistler.
This entire production is dead to me also. I was never liked the original game much, the 2nd is one of the most dreary and dreadful stories I have had the displeasure of sitting through. I don't think Druckmann's ego would allow them to really make a compelling HBO TV series out of this and focus on the world building and do something different than the story of interpersonal hatred that the 2nd game is all about.
I was totally into this series just for the local film making aspect of it which was really cool to experience as they filmed many scenes so close to me that it was just outside my bedroom window and within my actual workplace.
Major second game spoilers, do not click if you have not played:
Spoiler!
I'm not kidding, do not click this if you don't already know the plot...
Spoiler!
If Pedro Pascal wants to endear himself to Calgary all he has to do is serve as parade marshal and then give a speech in which he says, "I hear they've moved filming to BC for next year... what a dump. I think if I have to spend more than an episode or two filming over there I'm going to need someone to smash my head in with a golf club."
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
With most of the second game taking place in Seattle, it makes sense to shoot in that area.
You'd have to think they'll still shoot some of the scenes that take place in Jackson around Canmore. I've also thought the part of the game where they go to the museum would make sense to shoot in Drumheller.
They won't do any of that, they'll just make do with locations around the BC area for everything, like they did with the first season in Alberta.
The second series had zero chance of filming in Alberta no matter how much they enjoyed it here, so I'm really stoked that it's staying in Canada.
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It's not at all surprising based on the second game. I'm playing through it a second time right now, and I'd forgotten how much of it took place on the coast.
I wonder if HBO will have the same kind of access in Vancouver as they did in Alberta. I just can't see them being able to close a major artery in downtown Vancouver, for example. Plus they'd be competing with other projects for locations, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they will make it work, as so many productions are filmed there and they seem to make it work. But Calgary, and the province really seemed to roll out the red carpet for production, and I'm wondering how common that is in BC.
I just think Druckmann's ego isn't likely to let him fix the many structural and pacing problems with Part 2. This season was really very faithful to the first game, and in the case of the first game that was mostly a good thing. That's really not the case going forward, in my opinion. But he seems to take praise (or fawning) to heart readily and dismiss criticism, and there's been plenty of praise to reinforce his views about his own storytelling abilities over the course of this season's run. I think it's going to suffer from basically everything the second game did.
lol with this r/lastofus2 crap.
Neil's clearly a very smart guy. He's been very vocal during his career how much feedback he took from people and how much his projects changed because of the negative feedback he received. From what I've seen of him, the guy doesn't seem to have much of an ego at all. There's a subsection of fans (see: incels) that has launched a pretty crazy smear campaign against him, which always felt had some pretty clear anti-semitic undertones.
There are definitely some valid complaints about structure (and narrative) issues with Part II, but the major winging comes from a very small minority of the fans. I believe that the game did have some logical gaffs (such as the welcoming behaviour of some certain characters), but it was nearly perfect. It was also released to nearly universal praise as well outside of the gamergate crowd.
I do also think anyone (including Neil) could tell you the structure of that game would not smoothly transfer over to TV. There will need to be major readjustments to the story, as a TV audience will probably not stick around for the narrative device used at the halfway mark.
Mazin and Drukmann are both very smart guys, so I'm not worried about them transitioning it to TV.
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Last edited by Cole436; 04-02-2023 at 02:38 PM.
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I don’t see what gamergate/incels/anti-semitism has to do with Corsi’s post, considering he is none of those things. I think Corsi even enjoyed the game more than I did, as I thought it was pretty bad all around and just a deeply flawed, boring, and depressing mess.
I loved the first season. There’s a good chance as of now that I don’t even bother watching the second.
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I've always found it interesting how critical this board (or at least parts of it) has been of the second game. Can only speak for myself, but I haven't seen that on the other places I visit and from other people I know who've played the game. Tenor there is overwhelmingly positive, whereas on this board, you get the impression it's a steaming pile of ####. No right or wrong here and people will have different opinions, it's just an interesting dichotomy that I haven't seen for any other game. Really seems there's either love or hate, with nothing in between.
Nver got the hate for Druckmann. There's this narrative out there that Druckmann is an idiot who constantly got saved by Straley, the storytelling hero ... okay then.
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I think I've read somewhere that Druckmann stated that some of the structure was down to the videogame format, meaning that because of things like the upgrade system it didn't make sense for them to flip-flop between the two main characters. In the series this will obviously not be an issue, so I'd expect a lot of structural and pacing changes in season 2.
That doesn't make sense to me, but I'll take your word for it. I didn't poke into the details of how Druckmann and group did things much at all. I just comment based on how I saw it when I played it.
I really didn't like how the first few hours gave you a huge idea about what the later game would be like, but the later game felt like it was written in a way where the writing felt like it expected you to have no idea what was going on at all. It basically spoilered a ton of the late game. In other stories where you follow the story from two totally different perspectives, you're still learning new information all the time and curious where you'll intersect. I've always felt a minor tweaking in order could have amplified the game to another level for enjoyment. I also literally felt (but don't know for sure) like the story of TLOU2 was written to be optimized in a different order, then forced into the final order and thus it feels weird because you can see those story mechanics in the later game that seem strangely out of place.
IMO the second season shouldn't follow a similar format. IMO, the stories alone are really good. But I'm also just saying I'm worried that the story telling format that we saw in TLOU2, seemed to exist in TLOU HBO, so I'm just saying I'm worried they might stumble with the story in TLOU2 HBO.
When I finished the second game I felt a little let down. At the time it didn't live up to the first, which is in my top 3 favourite games.
I played LOU2 again over the Christmas break and it changed my mind. I loved it. I don't think there are any games better at storytelling than the LOU series.
For sure it was depressing. That was part of the point. But it was engaging as hell and was miles ahead of any other game in terms of telling an impactful story.
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