You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

No, we don't want you to be unpredictable. Some idiot doing a rolling stop and proceeding without the right of way is a perfect example of being unpredictable. Stop it.

You and another car both arrive at an intersection at the exact same time.
1. If the car is to your right, they have the right of way and get to go first. However, if you are turning right then you can proceed at the same time because you aren't impeding their right of way.
2. If the car is to your left, you have the right of way.
3. If the car is immediately across from you, then the vehicle going straight has the right of way. If you are both turning into the same lane, the vehicle making the right hand turn has the right of way -- except where the right turn is a yield, in which case you have a yield and not a stop sign and therefore must yield to all oncoming traffic including those turning left.

This is not rocket science; this is rock-paper-scissors. Vehicle to the right beats vehicle to the left, straight beats left turn, right turn beats left turn. Left turn beats yielding right turn.
.

That's all good but nobody knows any of that. A tie at a 4 way stop basically turns in a de facto uncontrolled intersection which got this whole discussion started in the first place. So I just go first.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

No, we don't want you to be unpredictable. Some idiot doing a rolling stop and proceeding without the right of way is a perfect example of being unpredictable. Stop it.

You and another car both arrive at an intersection at the exact same time.
1. If the car is to your right, they have the right of way and get to go first. However, if you are turning right then you can proceed at the same time because you aren't impeding their right of way.
2. If the car is to your left, you have the right of way.
3. If the car is immediately across from you, then the vehicle going straight has the right of way. If you are both turning into the same lane, the vehicle making the right hand turn has the right of way -- except where the right turn is a yield, in which case you have a yield and not a stop sign and therefore must yield to all oncoming traffic including those turning left.

This is not rocket science; this is rock-paper-scissors. Vehicle to the right beats vehicle to the left, straight beats left turn, right turn beats left turn. Left turn beats yielding right turn.

I hate that, and it happens constantly at 14 St and 38 Ave / Sifton Blvd. But I would prefer that instead of being a dick that people just learned how to navigate 3 and 4-way stops (also T-intersections where two directions have a stop and the intersecting road has right-of-way, like Peacekeepers Way SW / Peacekeepers Drive SW).

Maybe what we need is all drivers get out of our cars and do rock-paper-scissors in the middle of the intersection to see who goes first. Loser stays to play the next person that arrives. 4 way battles when possible. Or how about Hungry Hungry Hippos at every intersection.

[Fuzz]

https://goo.gl/maps/RxAt25qQw5WN3G2c7

Another place where people rarely get it right is this situation. If you are turning right, you move into the bike lane where it goes dashed. If you have a red light, you stop there, against the curb. You can turn when safe. This prevents bikes from getting beside you, where you then have to turn across them. As we say in cycling, Take the Lane. It's yours, do it. I see people get this wrong daily.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by nik-

I like my intersections like I like my steak, well done T-Bone.

Spoiler!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's all good but nobody knows any of that. A tie at a 4 way stop basically turns in a de facto uncontrolled intersection which got this whole discussion started in the first place. So I just go first.

Everybody knows all of that. Except strugglers.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I do the opposite. If approaching where I'm going to stop at the exact second the other car will, I'll slowly crawl an extra few inches and complete stop after the other car does. Then they feel they got there first and go first without doing the stupid standoff.

Exactly what I do too. Makes the situation obvious without being a dickhole

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's all good but nobody knows any of that. A tie at a 4 way stop basically turns in a de facto uncontrolled intersection which got this whole discussion started in the first place. So I just go first.

Sh-t drivers don't know any of that. We need to institute mandatory driver's education classes before you can take your learner's permit written test and subsequent road test for a Class 5, because I learned that when I was 15. It is table-stakes for understanding right of way when negotiating an intersection controlled by stop signs.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's a good point. A cyclist still shouldn't be there, but if Pepsifree had been far enough over to turn, there should not have been room for the cyclist to be where he was.

It was single lane. Or at least one of those single lanes with parking spaces along the curb, but not in an area where the parking area becomes a driving lane during rush hour (if that makes sense). I didn’t wildly swing over or anything or cut across lanes, I just started making my right turn a few feet after the last parked car.

I don’t even know if I know what you mean by a “curb lane” when it’s a single lane.

[Fuzz]

Curb lane is just the lane closest to the curb. Could be a bike lane, parknig lane, regular lane, turning lane...

Would be interesting to see how he got where he did if you signalled and moved right after passing the parked car.

[Weitz]

Sounds like a classic cyclist trying to pass on the right and almost getting hit.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://goo.gl/maps/RxAt25qQw5WN3G2c7

Another place where people rarely get it right is this situation. If you are turning right, you move into the bike lane where it goes dashed. If you have a red light, you stop there, against the curb. You can turn when safe. This prevents bikes from getting beside you, where you then have to turn across them. As we say in cycling, Take the Lane. It's yours, do it. I see people get this wrong daily.

Yeah, I live on a road with one of those painted bike lanes and see people doing that all the time.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Sh-t drivers don't know any of that. We need to institute mandatory driver's education classes before you can take your learner's permit written test and subsequent road test for a Class 5, because I learned that when I was 15. It is table-stakes for understanding right of way when negotiating an intersection controlled by stop signs.

You are the exception good driver.

Nobody knows this, haven't you read all iterations of any driving or gear grinder thread on here?

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You are the exception good driver.

Nobody knows this, haven't you read all iterations of any driving or gear grinder thread on here?

CP users know all this, just like we know about zipper merges. If you sign up for CP and don't know this stuff, you learn it reading this thread. It is the rest of the population that doesn't know the rules.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It was single lane. Or at least one of those single lanes with parking spaces along the curb, but not in an area where the parking area becomes a driving lane during rush hour (if that makes sense). I didn’t wildly swing over or anything or cut across lanes, I just started making my right turn a few feet after the last parked car.

I don’t even know if I know what you mean by a “curb lane” when it’s a single lane.

Here's a good example in the aerial view: https://goo.gl/maps/do4z2F3wQQJHDEkX9

The red car has left the flow of traffic on 6th St and is making a right turn onto 13th Ave. The white car on 6th St is still in the flow of traffic and can continue moving south without concern. If a cyclist was also travelling south behind the red car, they could see the red car was occupying the curb lane and pass on the vehicle's left with the flow of traffic. If the cyclist tried to pass the red car on the right, the cyclist would be the idiot in this case.

On the other hand, if the red car was directly in front of the white car to make a right turn from the traffic lane, the curb lane would be open and a cyclist would have no reason to expect the driver to make a right turn in front of it. In that case, the driver would be in the wrong.


If you don't have a dedicated right turn lane, you should be as close as safely possible to the curb when making the turn (turning from one curb lane into the other before re-entering the flow of traffic after making the turn). If there are vehicles parked in the curb lane, they should be well back from the intersection itself, so you should move over to be as close to the curb as you can once you've passed the last parked car (of course, making sure there are no bikes on your right before doing so). This is one of many reasons why you shouldn't ever park too close to an intersection.

[GirlySports]

what if the bike was behind the red car and wanted to turn right as well? I've seen it scoot past the red car on the right since the red car is slowing down.

Yes I know the bike is in the bike lane and max they can go is 20. But as the red car is slowing down leaving the flow of traffic thinking the bike was nowhere near, it can catch up to the red car pretty fast.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

what if the bike was behind the red car and wanted to turn right as well? I've seen it scoot past the red car on the right since the red car is slowing down.

Yes I know the bike is in the bike lane and max they can go is 20. But as the red car is slowing down leaving the flow of traffic thinking the bike was nowhere near, it can catch up to the red car pretty fast.

What? No. Not true. Second, the cyclist should see a signal light if it's not a BMW.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

what if the bike was behind the red car and wanted to turn right as well? I've seen it scoot past the red car on the right since the red car is slowing down.

Yes I know the bike is in the bike lane and max they can go is 20. But as the red car is slowing down leaving the flow of traffic thinking the bike was nowhere near, it can catch up to the red car pretty fast.

20km/h is only for shared pathways.

[bc-chris]

one thing i know about cyclists is it's never their fault....


run a red light/stop sign and almost get smoked - fault lies on the guy driving the car
don't stop at a pedestrian cross walk almost hitting the pedestrian - fault lies on the pedestrian
randomly leave a bike lane (twice) and almost get smoked... twice (saw this last night actually) - blame the people in the cars


what i don't understand with cyclists is they do all this stupid stuff and in most cases if there is a collision they "lose". if you get hit by a car i'm pretty sure the car will usually be fine... sure, it might need to go to a body shop for some work, but the vehicle will be ok. the cyclist .... not so much.


another thing i've observed is that the stuff i mentioned is directed almost exclusively to the cyclists that are in the 'tour de france' get ups.... the spandex outfits, the racing helmets, etc. the guys out for a bike ride with jeans and a tee shirt and likely just a ball cap... those guys seem to follow all the rules of the road... generally speaking.

[Sainters7]

Seemingly getting sick for the 3rd time since late May alone. So ridiculous.

To add to that, I'm a front line worker and didn't get sick even once during the entire height of the pandemic. How do you go from not getting sick for 3 years to getting sick 3 times in under 2 months?! Starting to really consider masking up again..

[timun]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

At 4 way stops if there anything resembling a tie I go. I don't even stop, I roll forward and go. Have no time to wait for strugglers. 99% they'll stop. 1% they'll try to go too but will brake because I'm already in the intersection.

wat

"I just roll through stop signs because 99% of the time other people will stop for me and the other 1% they'll still stop for me, because I rolled through the stop sign first."

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I hate [people with the right-of-way of who wave traffic through], and it happens constantly at 14 St and 38 Ave / Sifton Blvd. But I would prefer that instead of being a dick that people just learned how to navigate 3 and 4-way stops (also T-intersections where two directions have a stop and the intersecting road has right-of-way, like Peacekeepers Way SW / Peacekeepers Drive SW).

Ha, I also find the 14th St/38th Ave SW intersection somewhat problematic for this. I also find it problematic in that there are many drivers like GirlySports who roll through the stop signs. Kind of the worst of both worlds in this respect. I think the biggest problem is the eastbound traffic on 38th Ave becomes a de facto two lane road at that point, with a pretty even split of traffic continuing straight and turning left onto 14th Street.

The Peacekeepers Way/Drive intersection is dumb, and only works because traffic is somewhat limited from the north side. It reminds me a lot of 38th Ave and 19th Street SW, which used to have stop signs on 19th Street and the (unsigned) westbound 38th Ave traffic had the right-of-way; it has since (~2-4 years ago) had a third stop sign added on 38th. If/when the rest of the ATCO lands there ever get developed as planned Peacekeepers Way/Drive will quickly end up a signalized intersection.