2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Are there any players more overrated (and eventually overpaid) than roleplayers on teams than go deep into the playoffs?

Like Marcus Kruger

[Toonage]

or Sean Bergenheim

He nearly put Tampa into the finals himself in 2011

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So you are contesting the Flames started the rebuild in 12/13?

Trading back in the first round to take a 4-5 year project is a rebuilding move?

Signing a 29 year old Dman to a 5 year $5.25M contract and a 28 year old to a 4 year $16M contract are typical for a team entering a rebuild?

The Flames entered that season with playoff aspirations. It was clear the team was not good midway through that shortened season. The team traded Iginl and Bouwmeester in March 2013 which was just over 5 years ago and clearly when the team decided to head in a different direction.

The team tore it down in 2013 and clearly the first full year of rebuilding was 13/14 so next year is season starting season 6 since they changed direction.

Year six is fine by me, not sure that makes current management look better. But 7 is a bigger number than 6, so I must have "made up a big number" like you said, you discovered my sinister plan to miscontrue a year where we traded our two best players as a rebuilding year to pump up the number by a year.

Fact of the matter is by year 6 (or 7) it would be reasonable to expect that your team could compete for home ice advantage and be in the top third of the league minimum. I would suggest that would be a minimum requirement for a successful year next year.

Sylvanfan said the team cannot be slipping into a wildcard spot or missing the playoffs anymore, that they need to be a lot better. I simply said that would be the hope in year 7 (or 6, it really does not make a difference) and that anything less than the 2nd round should be considered an abject failure.

The rebuild is certainly not entering year 5 as The Cobra stated, and I would question whether it has gone "quite well"

My apologies for miscontruing the 2012/2013 season as a rebuilding year, you are correct it is merely in year 6 of the rebuild.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Year six is fine by me, not sure that makes current management look better. But 7 is a bigger number than 6, so I must have "made up a big number" like you said, you discovered my sinister plan to miscontrue a year where we traded our two best players as a rebuilding year to pump up the number by a year.

Fact of the matter is by year 6 (or 7) it would be reasonable to expect that your team could compete for home ice advantage and be in the top third of the league minimum. I would suggest that would be a minimum requirement for a successful year next year.

Sylvanfan said the team cannot be slipping into a wildcard spot or missing the playoffs anymore, that they need to be a lot better. I simply said that would be the hope in year 7 (or 6, it really does not make a difference) and that anything less than the 2nd round should be considered an abject failure.

The rebuild is certainly not entering year 5 as The Cobra stated, and I would question whether it has gone "quite well"

My apologies for miscontruing the 2012/2013 season as a rebuilding year, you are correct it is merely in year 6 of the rebuild.

It was 5 years and 2 months since the Flames moved on from Iginla so it has been 5 years of rebuilding but that includes stripping the team down. Feaster got zero true assets for Iginla and Bouwmeester and Kipper would not allow the team to trade him as he planned to retire.

The team took the next 7-8 months after the trading of Iginla to make a decision to fire Jay Feaster for accomplishing little other than leaving the team with 2 very intriguing talents and a fairly clean cap sheet. Treliving took the job over 4 years ago so this would be year 5 of his vision for the team.

The results are not the greatest with 2 playoff appearances and only 5 playoff wins in those 2 trips (at least they won a round in 2015). When they took a step back in 2016 it was expected by most as the numbers they put up in 2015 were no sustainable.

The team took the appropriate step forward in year 3 under Treliving by locking up their cornerstone players to team friendly deals and proceeding to improve 17pts in ththe standings. Losing in a sweep made that a little more painful then it needed to be.

Last year in my opinion highlights the first time this rebuild really stalled. Making the playoffs, acquiring a real starting goalie, and top 4 Dman raises expectations. The fact the team stubbed their toe and missed the dance altogether stung and cost Gulutzan his job (rightfully so).

I would say what happened last year does not really change the expectations we should have for this team. This should still be a team on the rise and another playoff miss next year would be either a stall or full on step back. I truly feel as fans our expectations should be fighting for the division and being a playoff team. This is the beginning of the 6th full season of the rebuild and the 5th year under the current management team. The time to make strides is now so I agree with you that this team needs to be in the playoffs and hopefully winning a round or two. I am not going as far as saying if they are not one of the last 8 teams playing hockey next year it is a failure but it is getting closer to that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Are there any players more overrated (and eventually overpaid) than roleplayers on teams than go deep into the playoffs?

The worst contracts handed out by GM's. It's so weird how the entire hockey world can look at a bottom six forward that had a hell of a playoffs and say here comes a HUGE mistake.

...and then GM's line up to make said mistake. Matt Belesky was like this. we all saw it, we all predicted it and then it happened.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by jayswin

...and then GM's line up to make said mistake. Matt Belesky was like this. we all saw it, we all predicted it and then it happened.

Today everyone is hating on Florida for giving up Marchessault after his 30 goal campaign. But he was 26, and had been an AHL callup the year before with Tampa.

Beleskey had 22 goals in 65 games (28 goal pace) before the playoffs, or 30 goals in 81 games with the playoffs that year. He was 26 and at least had established himself as an NHL player prior to that career season.

They really aren't too dissimilar situations that diverged greatly.

[Toonage]

Not sure if its posted yet. Evander Kane extended in San Jose. 7 years, $7M

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Not sure if its posted yet. Evander Kane extended in San Jose. 7 years, $7M

I predict regret

[Vinny01]

Flamesnation posted an article exploring trade options with the Hurricanes considering the fact they have opened for business and the Peters connection in Calgary.

To sum it up it sounds like no way Skinner is on the radar (notnused as a top 6 forward under Peters)

Elias Lindholm would be the most intriguing forward as he was trusted and fits an organizational need for a right shot forward.

Peace and Slavin would cost too much. Hanifin is intriguing but Faulk makes the most sense.

If the Flames really wanted to blow up their backend and trade Brodie and Hamilton then acquiring Faulk makes some sense. Otherwise adding another right shot Dman doesn’t really make any sense

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Flamesnation posted an article exploring trade options with the Hurricanes considering the fact they have opened for business and the Peters connection in Calgary.

To sum it up it sounds like no way Skinner is on the radar (notnused as a top 6 forward under Peters)

Elias Lindholm would be the most intriguing forward as he was trusted and fits an organizational need for a right shot forward.

Peace and Slavin would cost too much. Hanifin is intriguing but Faulk makes the most sense.

If the Flames really wanted to blow up their backend and trade Brodie and Hamilton then acquiring Faulk makes some sense. Otherwise adding another right shot Dman doesn’t really make any sense

Hamilton and Bennett for Hanifin and Lindholm?

They get the better Dman and then can trade Faulk for help elsewhere.
We get the better forward and one that can play C or RW with a right shot.

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone

Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington and Fox still in the system.

[Toonage]

The Hurricanes, despite Peters having just coached them and knowing them so well, aren't a good trading partner for the Flames. Just don't have exactly what the Flames need.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Hamilton and Bennett for Hanifin and Lindholm?

They get the better Dman and then can trade Faulk for help elsewhere.
We get the better forward and one that can play C or RW with a right shot.

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone

Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington and Fox still in the system.

Very interesting trade. Hamilton is by far the best player in the deal and Bennett the worst. I would like a 2nd or something from the Canes side.

Not a bad move long term acquiring a 23 and 21 year old for a 22 and 25 year old but there would be a lot of risk from the Flames on that deal considering Hamilton is already top pairing and the rest of the 3 pieces in the deal are more or less banking on potential (in Benny’s case change of scenery)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Today everyone is hating on Florida for giving up Marchessault after his 30 goal campaign. But he was 26, and had been an AHL callup the year before with Tampa.

Beleskey had 22 goals in 65 games (28 goal pace) before the playoffs, or 30 goals in 81 games with the playoffs that year. He was 26 and at least had established himself as an NHL player prior to that career season.

They really aren't too dissimilar situations that diverged greatly.

Well there's a big difference between giving up on Marchessault and signing Beleskey to a long term contract at $4 million/season. One involved a significant financial and salary cap risk while the other was simply bad asset management. It's not like the Knights immediately handed him that $30 million deal. They got to see him in their jersey for a full season first as they were in no hurry to pay him big money for his 30 goal season with Florida.

[Monahammer]

That is a hamilton trade I would accept. I am not sure it's enough on our side... Vinny's assessment is right.

Hamilton>Hanifin>Lindholm>Bennett

But I think that the gap between Bennett and Lindholm is bigger than the one between Hanifin and Hamilton. That said, I have a worse opinion of Bennett than most so it may be a well formed idea. Good job.

Edit: I thought about it more and the gap is just right on both ends. Hamilton is a significant upgrade on Hanifin, much as Lindholm has shown better than Bennett.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The Hurricanes, despite Peters having just coached them and knowing them so well, aren't a good trading partner for the Flames. Just don't have exactly what the Flames need.

Yeah, the Hurricanes and Flames pretty much have the same strengths and the same needs. Sure, Lindholm would be a good fit in Calgary. But what do you send back? Carolina's doesn't need any more top-4 d-men, they need forwards.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Hamilton and Bennett for Hanifin and Lindholm?

They get the better Dman and then can trade Faulk for help elsewhere.
We get the better forward and one that can play C or RW with a right shot.

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone

Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington and Fox still in the system.

Pass. If we are trading Dougie I want a legit #1 RW back and I am not convinced Bennett won't be at least as good as Lindholm with a more physical edge. That leaves Hamilton for Hanifin who hasn't exactly blown my socks off.

[Toonage]

People will bristle at this (understandably) but the only person I see the Flames being interested in from Carolina (though technically will be UFA) is Cam Ward as a veteran backup if they aren't happy with the camp from Gillies/Rittich

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Toonage

People will bristle at this (understandably) but the only person I see the Flames being interested in from Carolina (though technically will be UFA) is Cam Ward as a veteran backup if they aren't happy with the camp from Gillies/Rittich

I don't see that at all.

Goaltending has sunk Peters just about every year in Carolina, and the one constant was always Ward. I con't see any way he'd want Ward as one of his goalies here, and would tell Treliving that every chance he got.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Toonage

People will bristle at this (understandably) but the only person I see the Flames being interested in from Carolina (though technically will be UFA) is Cam Ward as a veteran backup if they aren't happy with the camp from Gillies/Rittich

Rittich looked very good at the Worlds and has looked more than capable of being a backup. Bringing in a washed up Cam Ward would be a disaster.

[Snuffleupagus]

Flames need speed and a pure RS sniper, until Treliving addresses these needs the team won't get much better.

Ottawa is cheap, we should be going after Stone...hard!