You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Not gonna lie, for me, if it's a beige coloured Camry / Accord or a CRV, I do that whenever I'm coming up to a merge onto a freeway (ie to Deerfoot or Stoney). Those strugglers always screw me over going 60km/hr on the merge onto the freeway, so I proactively try to get in front in case they are also about to turn onto the freeway ramp.

That's entirely different. Our roads are full of new Canadians working ####ty rideshare jobs who have barely learned to drive. Any vehicle with an A- or O- plate I avoid like the plague.

These guys cut me off and almost immediately hit the brakes to make a left turn. They saved only a couple of seconds by doing something dangerous instead of getting behind me.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I don’t think a scammer overseas would want cash. Would a senior mail that or something?

I think your situation should be three gear grinders though: Making you head out to bank to get cash instead of just accepting an etransfer, draft, cheque; the bank not just giving you the cash; and paying a monthly fee for banking.

Scammers get you to withdraw cash to buy visa/amazon/apple gift cards and then send them the codes. If you buy them with cash, there is zero recourse to file a credit card dispute and no way to cancel the gift cards. They also have you take cash to Western Union and wire the funds.

They also have cash mules in North America that actually pick up cash. I went down the scam buster rabbit hole on youtube a while ago... it's pretty crazy the stuff they do, and cash is absolutely king.

That being said.... If I decline to answer their questions, it is still 100% my prerogative and I believe my right to privacy whether I am being scammed or not.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by pylon

Scammers get you to withdraw cash to buy visa/amazon/apple gift cards and then send them the codes. If you buy them with cash, there is zero recourse to file a credit card dispute and no way to cancel the gift cards. They also have you take cash to Western Union and wire the funds.

They also have cash mules in North America that actually pick up cash. I went down the scam buster rabbit hole on youtube a while ago... it's pretty crazy the stuff they do, and cash is absolutely king.

That being said.... If I decline to answer their questions, it is still 100% my prerogative and I believe my right to privacy whether I am being scammed or not.

Came to say the same thing, they actually have local mules that take a cut to do pickups and send cash etc.

Large sums are questioned to audit against laundering and terrorist funding etc. $8,000 seems low I would assume they wouldn't ask until at least 10k.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Engine09

Banks do that same #### if you're depositing cash, can't remember what amount but if it's over they ask you where you got it.

But withdrawing? I wouldn't answer them either, it's none of their business. All of the people getting scammed online aren't sending cash by mail anyways.

Really f'ing annoying.

It's $10k and you have to fill out a form called a Fintrac form for the government to make sure the funds aren't the proceeds of crime/money laundering etc... We have to fill out a few a year if someone buys a car or makes a down payment with a large sum of cash.

edit: As far as the withdrawal thing, it seems to be a bank to bank thing. The bank questioning me said their large cash withdrawal limit is $5000 and above to fill out the form. I do believe it is for the banks liability. But the banks liability does not override my right to privacy.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by pylon

Scammers get you to withdraw cash to buy visa/amazon/apple gift cards and then send them the codes.

One of the newer scams too, is to get people to withdraw cash, then 'buy' Bitcoin at those Bitcoin terminals, too.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Came to say the same thing, they actually have local mules that take a cut to do pickups and send cash etc.

Large sums are questioned to audit against laundering and terrorist funding etc. $8,000 seems low I would assume they wouldn't ask until at least 10k.

I thought the rules were $10k minimum. Anything under that they're not supposed to require a report.

However, thats usually restricted to deposits. If the money is already within the banking system then what should they care how much you withdraw?

Especially because according to Pylon's story they offered him other methods of funds transfer in the form of a cashier's cheque or a certified cheque.

So they're not concerned about the legality or purpose of the money it looks like they're just trying to sell products.

Because walking up to your bank and withdrawing $8k...the bank doesnt make any money. It actually costs them because they have to replace that $8k in cash.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by pylon

It's $10k and you have to fill out a form called a Fintrac form for the government to make sure the funds aren't the proceeds of crime/money laundering etc... We have to fill out a few a year if someone buys a car or makes a down payment with a large sum of cash.

edit: As far as the withdrawal thing, it seems to be a bank to bank thing. The bank questioning me said their large cash withdrawal limit is $5000 and above to fill out the form. I do believe it is for the banks liability. But the banks liability does not override my right to privacy.

What do the banks T+Cs say. I’m not sure you have the right to privacy here. You have whatever is spelled out in your contract with the bank. If somewhere in the T+Cs they reserve the right to ask these questions at values lower than required by fintrac they you would have agreed to it.

The right to privacy has no bearing on this transaction.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by GGG

What do the banks T+Cs say. I’m not sure you have the right to privacy here. You have whatever is spelled out in your contract with the bank. If somewhere in the T+Cs they reserve the right to ask these questions at values lower than required by fintrac they you would have agreed to it.

The right to privacy has no bearing on this transaction.

I would absolutely love to test that in a court of law.

The bank refusing to give me my funds because I won't tell them what I am using it for. I guarantee you I never signed off on this, because I opened the bank account at 17 years old in 1991 and have never signed anything other than a couple separate loan agreements with them over the years. And I have withdrawn amounts way over 10k cash in the past without any resistance. This is something from the last 5 years or so.

I am pretty sure the bank would be f'd, but then again we have a government that legally seized the bank accounts of a bunch of idiots honking truck horns. Idiots, yes... but idiots and criminals still have the right to their money.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's entirely to protect people. The concern is that people withdraw the money for a scam and then come after the financial institution to say "you should've protected me (or my parent or whomever)". I'm a little surprised to see that for $8k, but I guess that's the world we live in these days.

Which absolutely happens. We do some conversation monitoring for work with a big bank and the number of times people will go on social media and put a bank on blast after they get scammed because the bank won’t just make them whole again is surprisingly high. Cash, e-transfer, whatever. People will give scammers hundreds or thousands of dollars and then just turn to the bank and say “How could you let this happen?”

People are ####ing dumb.

[Engine09]

I thought vaccine deniers and the freedom convoy crowd were the most stupid section of our population. I discovered today that people can be scammed into withdrawing cash and giving it away, never would have thought. Probably quite a bit of overlap though.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Came to say the same thing, they actually have local mules that take a cut to do pickups and send cash etc.

Large sums are questioned to audit against laundering and terrorist funding etc. $8,000 seems low I would assume they wouldn't ask until at least 10k.

Deposits by law they have to ask over 10 K. But for withdrawals I think it might vary by institution as it’s more of an internal policy. Typically that number is 5K for it to be considered a large cash withdrawal. I’ve even had them make me sign a waiver saying that I understand the safety risks of caring around that much cash.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by pylon

I would absolutely love to test that in a court of law.

The bank refusing to give me my funds because I won't tell them what I am using it for. I guarantee you I never signed off on this, because I opened the bank account at 17 years old in 1991 and have never signed anything other than a couple separate loan agreements with them over the years. And I have withdrawn amounts way over 10k cash in the past without any resistance. This is something from the last 5 years or so.

I am pretty sure the bank would be f'd, but then again we have a government that legally seized the bank accounts of a bunch of idiots honking truck horns. Idiots, yes... but idiots and criminals still have the right to their money.

I doubt it. Have a read through Scotiabanks policy procedure

https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/abo...agreement.html

There is a protocol for withdrawing the consent for the use and collection of your information. So you can refuse to participate and then they can choose to close all your accounts and no longer do business with you. You still get your 8k but you might have to find a new bank.


They also lost all the different ways they update and you accept the changes in collection of personal information.

I’d also wager that your original agreement has something giving them the right to collect personal information to conduct business.

Any way I agree with you that it’s annoying but none of your rights were being violated in any way

[PepsiFree]

On top of the banks protecting themselves angle, as already pointed out, banks are also protecting you from yourself.

It’s great to not need that protection. It’s also fine if you find it annoying. But it’s completely silly when people over-dramatize things like it’s some severe “invasion of privacy.” It’s an easy question to answer and isn’t a big deal, especially when you realize that banks knowing far more about you than the fact that you’re about to spend a few grand on a toy. Where it makes a big difference is for those that actually need that protection.

If banks putting 100 people through the arduous invasion of privacy known as “what is this money” for stops just one person from getting scammed, that’s a good thing. I know it’s hard, but we manage.

[81MC]

My grandparents literally gave away hundreds of thousands of dollars and remortgaged their house to a scammer that played in their pride and background. When my dad found out what was going on, he went through hell with the banks and the cops to figure out a way to get it to stop.

My grandparents being apparently very obtuse and (rip) incredibly ignorant and stupid, essentially told everyone to #### off and ultimately my dad couldn’t get a court or police or banks to do anything about it.

So yeah, if a bank can stop just one dumbass before they start, it might save someone.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by pylon

Scammers get you to withdraw cash to buy visa/amazon/apple gift cards and then send them the codes. If you buy them with cash, there is zero recourse to file a credit card dispute and no way to cancel the gift cards. They also have you take cash to Western Union and wire the funds.

It's not just scammers that do this, my Personalized CRA Security Agent is paid this way as well.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

On top of the banks protecting themselves angle, as already pointed out, banks are also protecting you from yourself.

It’s great to not need that protection. It’s also fine if you find it annoying. But it’s completely silly when people over-dramatize things like it’s some severe “invasion of privacy.” It’s an easy question to answer and isn’t a big deal, especially when you realize that banks knowing far more about you than the fact that you’re about to spend a few grand on a toy. Where it makes a big difference is for those that actually need that protection.

If banks putting 100 people through the arduous invasion of privacy known as “what is this money” for stops just one person from getting scammed, that’s a good thing. I know it’s hard, but we manage.

You may be OK with the intrusion of privacy, many people are not. It's not as much having an issue with the bank asking. However, you should also be free to decline answering, and still get your money that's where my issue is.

"What is this money for"

"I am buying Steam gift Cards for a guy name Frank Robertson that lives in Mumbai because aliens hacked the radio in my Hyundai and he needs the money to un hack it."

"Ok sir, are you familiar with online scams?"

You did your due diligence, saved the day, and the system worked in that scenario. But there comes a point where you've done your due diligence as a bank to make sure things are on the level, and you back off. And that line is "No thanks, none of your business, it's a private matter..." etc etc etc." There are thousand reasons someone may not want to answer, and just as many reasons the bank doesn't need to or have a right to know. It's a principal issue for me.

Sometimes people just have to be allowed to make dumb decisions without supervision, or intervention.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by pylon

You may be OK with the intrusion of privacy, many people are not. It's not as much having an issue with the bank asking. However, you should also be free to decline answering, and still get your money that's where my issue is.

"What is this money for"

"I am buying Steam gift Cards for a guy name Frank Robertson that lives in Mumbai because aliens hacked the radio in my Hyundai and he needs the money to un hack it."

"Ok sir, are you familiar with online scams?"

You did your due diligence, saved the day, and the system worked in that scenario. But there comes a point where you've done your due diligence as a bank to make sure things are on the level, and you back off. And that line is "No thanks, none of your business, it's a private matter..." etc etc etc." There are thousand reasons someone may not want to answer, and just as many reasons the bank doesn't need to or have a right to know. It's a principal issue for me.

Sometimes people just have to be allowed to make dumb decisions without supervision, or intervention.

The issue here was phrasing and wording in my opinion. "What are you buying with this cash" is concerning for them to ask. Asking if your comfortable dealing with cash, aware of any potential fraud occurring and that the bank has other payment options is a different matter.

I was a long time bank employee and I was never taught about asking what people were doing with their cash/bank drafts and more. That is an invasion of privacy.

These days a lot of people don't even see cash let alone deal with it. The bank asking you exactly what you are doing is out of line and not rationale behavior, perhaps it was employee specific.

Usually banks would let a client know that $8k withdraws may need some advanced notice in the future to ensure they have sufficient cash on hand to meet demand for you and for all the other clients.

Regardless, keep dealing in cash, it has a different affect on people when it comes to purchases. People get excited when there is cash in front of them and are willing to not lose a sale.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Not gonna lie, for me, if it's a beige coloured Camry / Accord or a CRV, I do that whenever I'm coming up to a merge onto a freeway (ie to Deerfoot or Stoney). Those strugglers always screw me over going 60km/hr on the merge onto the freeway, so I proactively try to get in front in case they are also about to turn onto the freeway ramp.

Mine is trucks with no mud flaps. If you drive a vehicle with big knobby tires and no flaps, I'm getting around you every time and I'm not signalling, either. Gfy. No respect for me and my windshield so none in return.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

It's not just scammers that do this, my Personalized CRA Security Agent is paid this way as well.

I too pay my taxes in iTunes gift-cards. I thought they did away with iTunes but hey, you want it you got it!

I did find it odd when they wanted my GST paid in Weekend Ski Passes tho...

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Mine is trucks with no mud flaps. If you drive a vehicle with big knobby tires and no flaps, I'm getting around you every time and I'm not signalling, either. Gfy. No respect for me and my windshield so none in return.

I had a Jeep Wrangler with 35's on it and no mud flaps 7 or 8 years ago. I got all mad when I got a ticket for no flaps.

Fast forward 3 years, the Jeep is long gone, and a take a giant rock off a brodozer into the windshield of my Corvette with a HUD and a 1700 windshield replacement cost.....I was not a happy camper.

Ever since then I have had Mudflaps on any big truck or 4WD. Sometimes you have to learn through experience.