Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[dobbles]

OK, I watched the video. What am I supposed to discuss now? Are you guys saying the video exonerates police and that's why we aren't talking about it?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

You really think that they'll be able to find a jury that will acquit, even when/if the evidence supports an acquittal?

I agree that this isn't murder, but don't count on facts and the law being a huge part of the decision making process of any jury they get.

I don't want or think he should be acquitted entirely. He should be convicted of manslaughter, because that's what happened.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

This bodycam video has been out for a week and barely a peep in this thread that is supposedly devoted to discussion about that incident. Not much discussion at all. Perhaps it's because the video provides context about what happened that day. Context that goes against the established narrative that George Floyd died due to a racist police lynching.

America is falling apart at the seams due this narrative that was spun with an incomplete picture of what happened that day.

But anyways onto more pressing matters like Ben Shapiro getting pranked.

Is that what you think that video does? Because it sure doesn't change the situation for me, in the slightest.

[ResAlien]

For the two guys who believe this bombshell body cam footage changes everything would you mind explaining to us why? What is so revelatory about it? No one else seems to see it so would you mind providing a little detail?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

For the two guys who believe this bombshell body cam footage changes everything would you mind explaining to us why? What is so revelatory about it? No one else seems to see it so would you mind providing a little detail?

I assume you mean me? I didn't say it was a bombshell, or "so revelatory". I said that he's guilty of manslaughter and not murder 2, based on the video and my own opinion.

Maybe you don't mean me and if so I apologize I'll let the other 2 guys answer.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't want or think he should be acquitted entirely. He should be convicted of manslaughter, because that's what happened.

The trouble is if you spend 9 minutes calmly choking someone to death, you cant really argue you didnt know you were killing him, he literally told them they were killing him, and manslaughter requires an action that results in death that the perpetrator could reasonably believe wouldnt result in death.

The other problem is a cop is trained in the use of force, he or she has less legal lee way because of that

[nik-]

As previously discussed in this thread, Minnesota even has third degree murder, which is uncommon for states and basically a slam dunk for this situation. I'm not sure what the prosecutor knows to make him think he can prove intent.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The trouble is if you spend 9 minutes calmly choking someone to death, you cant really argue you didnt know you were killing him, he literally told them they were killing him, and manslaughter requires an action that results in death that the perpetrator could reasonably believe wouldnt result in death.

The other problem is a cop is trained in the use of force, he or she has less legal lee way because of that

Look, the cop is a piece of ####, and should be in prison. But the cops were polite and trying their best with the guy Flloyd *at the start*. He was clearly high AF and already complaining about breathing problems before he was on the ground. That's all the lawyer for this guy needs to make sure he won't be convicted of 2nd degree murder. He was careless in his actions as a cop and his ####ty training and terrible judgement led to the death of a man who was maybe guilty of using counterfeit cash, being high and driving, and resisting arrest. Those aren't crimes cops can kill people over, but good luck proving the intent. That's insane.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

This bodycam video has been out for a week and barely a peep in this thread that is supposedly devoted to discussion about that incident. Not much discussion at all. Perhaps it's because the video provides context about what happened that day. Context that goes against the established narrative that George Floyd died due to a racist police lynching.

America is falling apart at the seams due this narrative that was spun with an incomplete picture of what happened that day.

But anyways onto more pressing matters like Ben Shapiro getting pranked.

Yikes. He kneeled on a man for minutes until he died. What does this video change? That someone deserves to die because they weren't perfect during a traffic stop?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

So you're saying that the two things in that video that are important are,

1. The police were acting fairly professionally early on in the interaction; and
2. He was complaining about not being able to breathe long before they had him on the ground?

I'm not sure that the first one matters very much. The second probably makes a difference but I can't remember if it's new information.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Look, the cop is a piece of ####, and should be in prison. But the cops were polite and trying their best with the guy Flloyd *at the start*. He was clearly high AF and already complaining about breathing problems before he was on the ground. That's all the lawyer for this guy needs to make sure he won't be convicted of 2nd degree murder. He was careless in his actions as a cop and his ####ty training and terrible judgement led to the death of a man who was maybe guilty of using counterfeit cash, being high and driving, and resisting arrest. Those aren't crimes cops can kill people over, but good luck proving the intent. That's insane.

But we already had the transcript where he said these things and an explanation of when they happened. So what does the video change, at all?

I'm just confused why this video is different than the transcript. It literally shows what is described in the transcript that was released a month ago. I don't get it.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But we already had the transcript where he said these things and an explanation of when they happened. So what does the video change, at all?

I'm just confused why this video is different than the transcript. It literally shows what is described in the transcript that was released months ago. I don't get it.

Is it really the same as a transcript? If so, then nothing. Honestly I have no idea of a transcript where it was clear in the transcript that George Flloyd was having breathing problems before he was taken down to the ground, and was visibly intoxicated or under the influence. These things matter for a 2nd degree murder charge. They just do.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Is it really the same as a transcript? If so, then nothing. Honestly I have no idea of a transcript where it was clear in the transcript that George Flloyd was having breathing problems before he was taken down to the ground, and was visibly intoxicated or under the influence. These things matter for a 2nd degree murder charge. They just do.

It's literally a transcript of this video...

And while the validity of the 2nd degree murder charge has always been up for the debate, neither the video or the transcript of the video change that, and 3rd degree murder is still fully on the table.

But honestly, I'm not sure how him having breathing problems prior and the officer STILL deciding to put his knee on his neck for 8 minutes helps the officer in this scenario. If anything, you'd think it would do the opposite.

[lambeburger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Tell me what in that video makes you think he deserved to die, or what tells you his death wasn't racially motivated.

You assume that I think George Floyd deserved to die. Really gross assumption about me. I didn't say that nor was I in any way was condoning Chauvin putting his knee to his neck for 8 minutes.

How about you tell me what proof there is in that video or the kneeing video that it was racially motivated? I can't prove an absence of something. And Floyd simply being black and Chauvin simply being white isn't proof of racism by the way.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

You assume that I think George Floyd deserved to die. Really gross assumption about me. I didn't say that nor was I in any way was condoning Chauvin putting his knee to his neck for 8 minutes.

How about you tell me what proof there is in that video or the kneeing video that it was racially motivated? I can't prove an absence of something. And Floyd simply being black and Chauvin simply being white isn't proof of racism by the way.

Well you said it includes context that “goes against” a racist police lynching. I would say it provides no such context either way. So does it “go against” it? Or does it lack any support for it? Because if it shows that racism had nothing to do with it, you’re going to have to provide some evidence of that. It’s not like anyone accused the officer of calling him the n-word while arresting him.

The claims of racism have always been directed at the greater police body and how they treat Black people. You could argue that nothing in the video supports the excessive force that was used. But I’d like to see how you show that this video goes AGAINST the narrative.

[peter12]

Yeah what's to discuss from that dumb video? Guy kind of argues with police, kind of resists arrest, and he deserves to be slowly murdered by a negligent, violent, power-tripping cop? Sorry, didn't change my mind.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

You assume that I think George Floyd deserved to die. Really gross assumption about me. I didn't say that nor was I in any way was condoning Chauvin putting his knee to his neck for 8 minutes.

How about you tell me what proof there is in that video or the kneeing video that it was racially motivated? I can't prove an absence of something. And Floyd simply being black and Chauvin simply being white isn't proof of racism by the way.

You boiling the narrative down to your interpretation of some shaky body cam video completely misses the point.

The point is that police are growing increasingly militaristic, aggressive, and violent towards the population they are supposed to protect. Because of a bunch of bad policy going back to the 60s, plus a lot of institutional and systemic bias towards black people, that violence is disproportionately felt by the black population.

The antagonism of police towards civilians is the real cause for concern here. Racism is just one strand - albeit one of the biggest parts - of this increasingly concerning problem.

[CliffFletcher]

In a shocking revelation, people who actually live in distressed and crime-ridden communities aren't as enthusiastic about defunding the police as white activists are.

Who Opposes Defunding the N.Y.P.D.? These Black Lawmakers

...But a fissure opened when it became clear during negotiations that passing a budget with the $1 billion in cuts meant reducing police presence on the streets and eliminating school safety agents.

During the debate, Black and Latino council members representing both poor and middle-class communities of color, including Brownsville, Brooklyn, and Jamaica, Queens, wanted to take a measured approach to cutting the police budget. White progressives, allied with some Latino council members from gentrifying and racially mixed neighborhoods and two Black council members, called for more aggressive reductions and reforms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/10/n...sultPosition=3

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In a shocking revelation, people who actually live in distressed and crime-ridden communities aren't as enthusiastic about defunding the police as white activists are.

Cliff coming to a conclusion not supported by the link he posted?.... Weird!

Might want to read the rest of the article there, bud. The vote passed with a $1 billion cut to the police, and almost all of the people who voted no were white. I guess "surprise white conservatives aren't as enthusiastic about reducing police budgets as people who actually live in distressed and crime-ridden communities" would have been just as accurate. Weird you didn't take that angle, wonder why.

The issue representatives of the poorer neighbourhoods had was with reducing the number of officers, not defunding the police, and that distinction has been discussed ad nauseam, so feel free to look it up.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Look, the cop is a piece of ####, and should be in prison. But the cops were polite and trying their best with the guy Flloyd *at the start*. He was clearly high AF and already complaining about breathing problems before he was on the ground. That's all the lawyer for this guy needs to make sure he won't be convicted of 2nd degree murder. He was careless in his actions as a cop and his ####ty training and terrible judgement led to the death of a man who was maybe guilty of using counterfeit cash, being high and driving, and resisting arrest. Those aren't crimes cops can kill people over, but good luck proving the intent. That's insane.

I don't think he is high as ####. I think he was having a panic attack. I think the video shows it showed have had a social worker there. I don't think the cops particularly handled it well from the get go since the first thing you see is a gun pulled on him instantly. That get me into panic mode right quick , especially if I'm a black man that just had a gun drawn on him point blank .