Lindros calls for significant changes to reduce concussions

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That said, one of the easier ways the league has to slow the game down is to bring back the two line pass rule.

That is pretty much impossible unless they move the blue lines back to their previous location. The central zone is too small to bring back the two line pass rule.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Fire

That is pretty much impossible unless they move the blue lines back to their previous location. The central zone is too small to bring back the two line pass rule.

Wouldn't be impossible at all. That's how it worked between 1998 and 2004. Also, if your goal is to slow the game down, a smaller neutral zone actually aids that.

That being said, there is an argument that making the offensive zones bigger decreased the effectiveness of the point shot (greater distance to goal), so putting all lines back to the pre-1998 alignment is also an argument I can get behind.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by speede5

There's got to be a way to get rid of the body armor without making a player more susceptible to injury.

Softer pads, less armor, from the waist up. If it hurts to hit someone at full tilt people will lay up on their hits but it won't take contact out of the game. Those cheap elbows to the head as a player skates by aren't going to do near as much damage if there's no armor plate on the elbow.

Hockey without contact would suck, but seeing two guys collide at full stride doesn't need to happen.

This one IMO.

Limit elbow and shoulder padding to be soft padding and ban the extremely hard plastic caps that are on the players shoulders and elbows today.

[Flamesfan2010]

Originally Posted by Jacks

In the past I would have said no but now that we're seeing the brain trauma that many of these players are dealing with I'm not so sure. I think I'd rather see immensely skilled players like Lindros and Kariya play full careers than the occasional bit hit. The don't necessarily even need to eliminate hits, most of the problems could be solved by cracking down harder on the stuff that's already illegal. If you elbow a guy in the head you should get 20 games not 1 or 2 games "because it's the playoffs".



Almost everyone would have argued to keep fighting in the game 10 years ago but now that it's almost gone I doubt most really care anymore.

I was thinking this exact thing, 20 games for your first offense and double it every time after that.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Wouldn't be impossible at all. That's how it worked between 1998 and 2004. Also, if your goal is to slow the game down, a smaller neutral zone actually aids that.

That being said, there is an argument that making the offensive zones bigger decreased the effectiveness of the point shot (greater distance to goal), so putting all lines back to the pre-1998 alignment is also an argument I can get behind.

The neutral zone was reduced from 54 feet to 50 feet the same time they removed the two-line pass in 2005. Re-introducing the two-line pass would definitely slow down the game, hurting the entertainment value. Also dramatically increase the number of stoppages because of increased offside calls.

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan2010

I was thinking this exact thing, 20 games for your first offense and double it every time after that.

But you have to hold everyone to the same standard... It sickens me when star players like Crosby get away with cheap shots, like when he almost chop off someones finger. Not hating on him, but you have to consider creating precedent and when you ban some no name guy for half a season, then you got to do the same thing for Marchand for example if he commits the same thing. And that would really change the whole league, teams would be losing players because of suspensions all the time and judging it would become a crucial part of the game. Imagine a season where Crosby, Kucherov, Kane, Laine a E. Karlsson all got banned. The league certainly doesnt want to go down that road.

[Enoch Root]

I agree with those saying that the padding should be softened. Take out the hard plastic plates in shoulder pads and elbow pads, and the player throwing the hit has to be much more careful. IT's getting hit by a plate of armor that is causing the serious injuries.

I also agree with stiffer penalties (longer suspensions) for head shots - that's how you'll get guys to stop.

I don't think you need to eliminate checking in order to reduce head injuries - just do those two things.

Finally, I also believe that if you take out hitting, you get a lot more tripping, hacking and diving. And lord knows, we don't need more of those things.

[The Boy Wonder]

I play beer league and I can confirm that if you made guys play in softer shoulder pads that alone will go a long way to reducing concussions. Removing hitting from the game is a ridiculous take and it honestly would ruin the product.

Just allow guys to play the same way with softer equipment and watch what happens, you will still see guys throw big hits but they will be more careful about how they do it because the chances are 50/50 you'll injure yourself in the process.

Obvious targeting needs to be eliminated but these guys choose to play this game, and they get paid handsomely for it, and I almost guarantee you that every single one of them would still play if given the chance, knowing the dangers involved.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by gamesaver

But you have to hold everyone to the same standard... And that would really change the whole league, teams would be losing players because of suspensions all the time and judging it would become a crucial part of the game. Imagine a season where Crosby, Kucherov, Kane, Laine a E. Karlsson all got banned. The league certainly doesnt want to go down that road.

That's a crucial and overlooked part of the NHL's disciplinary standards - how they're subject to the status of the player. Players get treated dramatically different depending on who they are. Changing that deeply ingrained part of the culture would be even harder than changing the culture around hits and head-shots.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Fire

The neutral zone was reduced from 54 feet to 50 feet the same time they removed the two-line pass in 2005. Re-introducing the two-line pass would definitely slow down the game, hurting the entertainment value. Also dramatically increase the number of stoppages because of increased offside calls.

Fair enough. I actually didn't realized they shrunk the neutral zone again in 2005.

As for the rest, the entire thrust of Lindros and Dryden's argument is to make the game less enjoyable in the name of player safety. If pressured into the choice, I'd take more stoppages over removing body contact - which wouldn't help the problem any way.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Literally every hockey league that plays on international sized ice.

None of those are rough equivalents to the NHL when you consider the talent of the players in question, which makes a HUGE difference

[codynw]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

None of those are rough equivalents to the NHL when you consider the talent of the players in question, which makes a HUGE difference

North American junior hockey is still infinitely more exciting than anything played on a large ice surface. It's not just NHL talent that makes it better.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

None of those are rough equivalents to the NHL when you consider the talent of the players in question, which makes a HUGE difference

Not really. The size of the ice still makes it a slower, less interesting game. It also pushes play further away from the net.

Obviously better players will be better players regardless of the rink size, but a larger ice surface doesn't make for a better game. I'm also deeply skeptical that it will have any impact on reducing concussions.

[troutman]

From the Joe Murphy thread:

Recently, two more retired players joined the class action. One of them is Nick Boynton.

Last month, his open letter entitled Everything's Not O.K. was reprinted in The Players' Tribune.

"Whenever things get really bad, and I find myself thinking about death, it’s always in the context of release. Escaping the pain. And no longer being around to make the lives of those I love miserable," he says in the letter.

Boynton notes he knew enforcers, who also suffered after hockey:

• Steve Montador
• Wade Belak
• Derek Boogaard
• Rick Rypien

"I’ve lied for too long. I can’t lie anymore," Boynton writes.

Two people I know well have dementia (and one at a very early age). I fear concussions from playing football and rugby impacted both of them.

I always enjoyed the physicality of sports, but I value the mental health of people in our community more. I would miss the contact, but would still enjoy and watch these sports. I can't watch boxing anymore.

Our weekly shinny game is no-contact, and it is way more fun for all of us as a result. No monkey business or risk of serious injury.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

If the game is too fast cutting the playing roster to 9 forwards and 5 D is a better solution than removing body checking IMO.

This makes sense from a safety perspective, but the NHLPA is more likely to sign off on a body checking ban than a change that eliminates 25% of NHL jobs.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

If the game is too fast cutting the playing roster to 9 forwards and 5 D is a better solution than removing body checking IMO.

I don’t see how this would make the game slower, there are already players that play over 20 minutes per game at a the current pace. If anything this would increase the likelihood of a player being injured because they would be on the ice more often and as a result more susceptible to injuries.

[N-E-B]

These guys make more in one paycheck than I make in an entire year. It sucks that some of them get hurt, but they're more than fairly compensated for the risk. When you have guys in the military making $50k/year putting their life on the line it puts this into perspective a bit.

Maybe that's evil, but to me that makes a huge difference in how I view this.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

These guys make more in one paycheck than I make in an entire year. It sucks that some of them get hurt, but they're more than fairly compensated for the risk. When you have guys in the military making $50k/year putting their life on the line it puts this into perspective a bit.

Maybe that's evil, but to me that makes a huge difference in how I view this.

Don't you think Steve Montador, Wade Belak, Derek Boogaard, Rick Rypien etc would have given all their millions back for their mental health?

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I don’t see how this would make the game slower, there are already players that play over 20 minutes per game at a the current pace. If anything this would increase the likelihood of a player being injured because they would be on the ice more often and as a result more susceptible to injuries.

I'm not sure how icetime affects injuries but it would slow the game down some.

Right now you always have a 4th line sitting fresh on the bench ready to go.

The other three lines would get slightly less rest so they would have to conserve energy a bit more. Plus the guys on the top three lines are less likely to look to put other guys through the boards usually.

I don't think it would make a huge difference, but it would make some kind of impact.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't you think Steve Montador, Wade Belak, Derek Boogaard, Rick Rypien etc would have given all their millions back for their mental health?

Is anyone in the NHL quitting now when they all know the risks?