Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Considering the popularity of parties like the UCP and CPC, how far should the CBC lean into right wing populism and new right identity politics to appease those who it suddenly finds itself “out of step” with?

I kind of wish that the general identication of groups like the UCP, Trumpers or the Woke Left would abandon "right wing" and " left wing". They are barely democratic political entities, in the practical sense.

They all are closer in heart to libertarianism, as they are solely centered on their own acute wants and needs, and that is always front and center in all policy.

Continuously lumping them in with conservatives and liberals are allowing them to find legitimacy in those parties they shouldn't have. They are interloper who spout nonsense that will never happen, to appease a population who will ignore the insidious governing that they do quietly to enrich themselves.

Broadly saying left wing or right wing is just a personal gripe of mine. Nevermind. Carry on.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Considering the popularity of parties like the UCP and CPC, how far should the CBC lean into right wing populism and new right identity politics to appease those who it suddenly finds itself “out of step” with?

It is no mere coincidence that Cliff noticed the CBC's decline within the same time frame of the rise in fringe conservative rhetoric being ramped to 12. Neither is it surprising to argue a dramatic contrast in sinking viewership considering the rapid technological shift in how Canadians - and people in general - consume media, journalistic or otherwise.

I suppose it's also little wonder why Cliff would conflate my "praise" for the CBC for simply explaining its value. And I guess it's just funny how they overlooked that argument to find a way to produce this dismissive gem:

And my sense is a lot of people who do defend the CBC today only take that stance because outspoken Canadian conservatives hate it. Just another front on the culture wars.

My sense is that a lot of people noticing this sudden decline in quality in regard to ideological bend happen to parallel the rise in political populism.

I consume CBC content on the regular (not religiously), and since I'm predisposed to have a professional and academic interest in it all I have to say that aside from punditry, the CBC and its content has not moved any further out of line one way or the other with respect to any other major, private networks.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I kind of wish that the general identication of groups like the UCP, Trumpers or the Woke Left would abandon "right wing" and " left wing". They are barely democratic political entities, in the practical sense.

They all are closer in heart to libertarianism, as they are solely centered on their own acute wants and needs, and that is always front and center in all policy.

Continuously lumping them in with conservatives and liberals are allowing them to find legitimacy in those parties they shouldn't have. They are interloper who spout nonsense that will never happen, to appease a population who will ignore the insidious governing that they do quietly to enrich themselves.

Broadly saying left wing or right wing is just a personal gripe of mine. Nevermind. Carry on.

The only people giving them legitimacy are their fellow "conservatives" who allowed them to take over their party...and then continued to vote for their idiocy in general elections because blue.

Sadly their are enough idiots that the evil idiots have absolutely been legitimized.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Considering the popularity of parties like the UCP and CPC, how far should the CBC lean into right wing populism and new right identity politics to appease those who it suddenly finds itself “out of step” with?

This is actually a really good question / fair point.

Tough to really nail down “bias” and be everything to all people, especially in a country as diverse as Canada.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The only people giving them legitimacy are their fellow "conservatives" who allowed them to take over their party...and then continued to vote for their idiocy in general elections because blue.

Sadly their are enough idiots that the evil idiots have absolutely been legitimized.

You don't think that the social justice warriors and climate warriors on the left have left the same mark on the liberals and the democrats? Most of what they want is not realistically feasible, but it's thrown into action anyway. They are preying on fears, in roughly the same way that the right nuts prey on fears, only more of the religious and isolationist bent.

I'm pretty close to lumping them all into the same group, finding a small bit of legitimate worry and then ballooning it into an nonsense monster to profit off of.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

You don't think that the social justice warriors and climate warriors on the left have left the same mark on the liberals and the democrats? Most of what they want is not realistically feasible, but it's thrown into action anyway. They are preying on fears, in roughly the same way that the right nuts prey on fears, only more of the religious and isolationist bent.

I'm pretty close to lumping them all into the same group, finding a small bit of legitimate worry and then ballooning it into an nonsense monster to profit off of.

Sure. The political spectrum is a horseshoe, with the crazies at either end being very bent out of shape.

But we live in a world where Guilbeault is an influential cabinet minister and Trump has a solid chance of becoming President again.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

You don't think that the social justice warriors and climate warriors on the left have left the same mark on the liberals and the democrats? Most of what they want is not realistically feasible, but it's thrown into action anyway. They are preying on fears, in roughly the same way that the right nuts prey on fears, only more of the religious and isolationist bent.

I'm pretty close to lumping them all into the same group, finding a small bit of legitimate worry and then ballooning it into an nonsense monster to profit off of.

While opinions in both ends may be as extreme I don’t think the left is nearly as successful in getting the democrats to bend the knee as the right has been. Show me the equivalent of what the right is achieving in abortion - getting Roe v Wade overturned and red states getting super regressive on the matter. Over on the left I can’t think of a similar example - even on climate change it’s usually just kicking the can down the road.

I’m open to a different view on this though.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

Do you have any evidence that in the last 10 years the CBC has become more left or more woke? What’s clear in 2015 is Harper started the very vocal defund movement. Can you point to a similar datapoint in wokeness?

If you’re looking for a single data-point in something as subjective as bias in media coverage, you’re doing to be disappointed.

Again, Conservative politicians in the UK have been bashing the BBC decades. Why hasn’t it caused conservatives there to turn on the BBC?

Your theory is that Harper and his messaging was so powerful that it turned millions of Canadians who would otherwise be supportive of the CBC against it. I don’t believe politicians have that kind of power. They ride currents, they don’t lead the population around by the nose.

Why is it so hard to believe that decline in support for the CBC is due in large part to the content they put out resonating with fewer Canadians? Isn’t that typically why the popularity of any media property declines?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Wrong. I watch and listen to CBC because I legitimately enjoy their programming. I also think their news reporting and journalism is top notch compared to the competition, and I watch the National daily. They're also a great platform for independent artists in this country, particularly CBC radio/podcasts, etc...

The fact that it annoys people on the right so much is nothing more than a humorous added bonus. Seems to me that the CBC is just another thing that conservatives like to put on their list of things that make them angry...which is everything these days.

Well if you say so, then the actual statistics of news / radio programming must be wrong....

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well if you say so, then the actual statistics of news / radio programming must be wrong....

This is accidentally a great example of how brainless the conservative hate machine of the CBC can get.

Direwolf: “I genuinely enjoy their programming and personally think they’re good for a number of reasons.”

Hurzur: “Oh, well I guess the STATISTICS are WRONG then!”

Like… the statistics showing… what? That a person who says they genuinely enjoy the CBC doesn’t genuinely enjoy the CBC? Right wingers will actually just use words like “statistics” because they think it makes them sound smart without realizing that it’s one thing to not provide those statistics, but on a whole other level when you’re talking about something statistics aren’t even relevant to lol.

[Locke]

You know. It seems to me that some people, regardless of Political stripes, could it be that some people are just not infatuated with the CBC for completely Politically-impartial reasons?

Maybe its because there is so much out there, but I watch programming on BBC and ABC, and the BBC just looks like amateur hour.

I'll watch the Fifth Estate if its on a topic that I find particularly interesting. But frame that up against a BBC Documentary and its positively amateur.

I dont have a Political dog in the fight. I just think the CBC isnt particularly very good at what it does. Some people like it and thats cool.

So. Remove the politicism from the equation. Make independent and neutral metrics.

For every amount of funding, they have to capture a percentage of viewership? I dont know. Just an un-biased metric.

I know that I dont consume much to any CBC content. For no other reason than...I dont really like it. I consider the CBC for news, but theres so much competition for that.

I just dont think this needs to really drag the political spectrum into it.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well if you say so, then the actual statistics of news / radio programming must be wrong....

There isn't an argument being made against observable declining ratings and numbers. The argument is that the CBC still holds value as a public broadcaster, and that those statistics have less to do with any perceivable ideological bias and more to do political populism and modern methods of consuming media.

The CBC is a special interest channel in that it provides a variety of entertainment and informative programming under a Can-Con umbrella. It continues to accomplish its mandate, as has been demonstrated in this thread, so its entirely reasonable to advocate that it remain a publicly funded institution.

I'm sure numbers across the board are dropping, especially as it concerns special interest channels. The major networks typically have a broader appeal, deeper wells to draw from, and a more corporate approach to profit and slashing costs. They are eliminating more and more jobs while providing less and less original content outside of their cornerstone programming. The CBC has an obligation to public interest that privately-owned platforms don't, and there's value in them maintaining programming and pushing Canadian-centric content, artists, and news.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If you’re looking for a single data-point in something as subjective as bias in media coverage, you’re doing to be disappointed.

Again, Conservative politicians in the UK have been bashing the BBC decades. Why hasn’t it caused conservatives there to turn on the BBC?

Your theory is that Harper and his messaging was so powerful that it turned millions of Canadians who would otherwise be supportive of the CBC against it. I don’t believe politicians have that kind of power. They ride currents, they don’t lead the population around by the nose.

Why is it so hard to believe that decline in support for the CBC is due in large part to the content they put out resonating with fewer Canadians? Isn’t that typically why the popularity of any media property declines?

There are many sites that provide the spectrum

The difference between the UK and here is the US media influence on Canada. But the trust gap between right and left still exists

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox...ut-its-role-uk

So yes you are seeing a less effective weaponization of anti media sentiment due to the fact the BBC is a much stronger and better funded institution.

My theory is that people who would have been ambivalent about the CBC are swayed to actively hate it. While the CBC in general is less liked then it used to be it’s the right wing where you see the dramatic jumps. Your theory would support a generalized decline in viewership or likelihood to want to defund the cbc.

Your argument requires that the CBC has changed its left right bias over the past 10 years. You should be able to demonstrate change somehow.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know. It seems to me that some people, regardless of Political stripes, could it be that some people are just not infatuated with the CBC for completely Politically-impartial reasons?

Maybe its because there is so much out there, but I watch programming on BBC and ABC, and the BBC just looks like amateur hour.

I'll watch the Fifth Estate if its on a topic that I find particularly interesting. But frame that up against a BBC Documentary and its positively amateur.

I dont have a Political dog in the fight. I just think the CBC isnt particularly very good at what it does. Some people like it and thats cool.

So. Remove the politicism from the equation. Make independent and neutral metrics.

For every amount of funding, they have to capture a percentage of viewership? I dont know. Just an un-biased metric.

I know that I dont consume much to any CBC content. For no other reason than...I dont really like it. I consider the CBC for news, but theres so much competition for that.

I just dont think this needs to really drag the political spectrum into it.

The data suggests that conservatives and ppc want to defund the cbc more so that’s how politics gets into it.

My opinion is the cbc should be rewarded for being terrible. Anywhere it creates a product that can be profitable it should sell that product off to the private sector. It should only make unprofitable things.

Re-open local news bureaus. Cover city politics in Lethbridge. Spend money on areas where no profit can possibly be made.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by GGG

The data suggests that conservatives and ppc want to defund the cbc more so that’s how politics gets into it.

My opinion is the cbc should be rewarded for being terrible. Anywhere it creates a product that can be profitable it should sell that product off to the private sector. It should only make unprofitable things.

Re-open local news bureaus. Cover city politics in Lethbridge. Spend money on areas where no profit can possibly be made.

This seems very counter intuitive…

I completely agree that they should do things that others don’t want to do (for the greater good), but having some profitable items would give people more of a reason to watch and would also subsidize the less profitable items. It would be like how grocery stores have sales to bring people in and hope that they buy non-sale items to boost the overall profit on that shopping trip

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calculoso

This seems very counter intuitive…

I completely agree that they should do things that others don’t want to do (for the greater good), but having some profitable items would give people more of a reason to watch and would also subsidize the less profitable items. It would be like how grocery stores have sales to bring people in and hope that they buy non-sale items to boost the overall profit on that shopping trip

And, while funny, the real flaw in this plan is that nobody, no journalist, who is any good or has any ambition whatsoever is going to want to work there.

It'd be a collection of nobodies, has-beens, castoffs, ne'erdo-wells and never were's.

It'd be awful. Thats like the outline of a bad Comedy Sketch show.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Locke

And, while funny, the real flaw in this plan is that nobody, no journalist, who is any good or has any ambition whatsoever is going to want to work there.

It'd be a collection of nobodies, has-beens, castoffs, ne'erdo-wells and never were's.

It'd be awful. Thats like the outline of a bad Comedy Sketch show.

People want to cover local news… it is the accountants who say there is no profit in it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calculoso

People want to cover local news… it is the accountants who say there is no profit in it.

Really? Because it seems as though the trail of ambition is always to cover National or Global news, local news is just a stepping stone.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Locke

Really? Because it seems as though the trail of ambition is always to cover National or Global news, local news is just a stepping stone.

Just like for some, being an independent accountant is just a stepping stone to being a CFO for a major multinational company.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Locke

And, while funny, the real flaw in this plan is that nobody, no journalist, who is any good or has any ambition whatsoever is going to want to work there.

It'd be a collection of nobodies, has-beens, castoffs, ne'erdo-wells and never were's.

It'd be awful. Thats like the outline of a bad Comedy Sketch show.

I think it'd be more a breeding ground for future national broadcasters and yes, some of what you're saying.

But that's also like saying Junior teams in these places would never attract top coach's etc.. because anyone with ambition or talent would be in the big leagues. But there are only so many big league jobs and more people that are talented enough to have them than actual jobs exist.

It would happen like any job that has bigger opportunities in larger centres, some will go for the entry-level things looking to move up. Some of them will and some of them may decide to stay for a variety of reasons (family, actually end up liking it, etc..) and yeah you may have some cast-offs/hasbeens but who cares? Hasbeens can't read the news? Would you say this about your finance manager as a citizen of Lethbridge? "If you're so good with money, why aren't you working in Toronto for the big wigs?"

Also I like CBC Marketplace, I think they do great work.