[PGT] Flames 6 Arizona 5 - whine about the tank here

[Jason14h]

Anyone who thinks the long term signed veterans are going to get upset because the rookies were given some more PP on game 80 are delusional

You don’t think if you have an honest discussion with Kadri and Weegar that the team wants to see what they have in the younger players and potentially get a better draft choice they would understand and be cooperative

Heck they may even be excited and volunteer to start to golf season a week early and start resting their bodies

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Personally I think a few games isn't going to really make a difference in winning and losing in the minds of
the young players. I worry that we're going to miss out on a good opportunity. You look at Chicago when they already have a very good player and are likely going to get another good one. I think that Chicago will probably be in a position to start winning sooner with better players.

I worry this ship won't bottom out, while some of these other teams have some franchise players.

Wasn't it a few years ago we won a game and missed an opportunity to move up in the draft?

I don't know I think we're so close that the loss of a couple games isn't going to impact the young players that much... If we were losing all season long while not making much effort I would be more concerned. Maybe we still win that lottery!

I don’t think the difference between 7-11 really matters at all this year . The odds of that player being a star are fairly low anyways

What worries me is the team actually thinks they are ….not terrible . That they don’t fully bottom out the next 2 years and get top 3 picks (and pray one turns out to be top 3)

This team is no where near being a contender nor having the pieces to become a contender . Trying to half arse this will result in a very dark decade . Full arse it and you may only be looking at a dark 3-4 years and a much brighter exiting of the darkness

[Bandwagon Surfer]

I see the anger as more the residual frustration from the past.

Last season (2022-2023) was so depressing and frustrating, it almost turned me off hockey entirely. The obtuse GMing, the dreary coaching, lack of rookies, it was like every move was designed to take away any hope for the future while simultaneously having the least interesting on ice product possible.

In contrast this season (2023-2024) has been a breath of fresh air. Yes we suck, but the team finally seems to not be delusional about it. Young players are being given a chance, coaches have them playing a much more entertaining style, there is some type of hope.

Seeing them win out now is triggering people because it reminds of previous seasons. Even though we finally did not spend at trade deadline for the sole purpose of getting a worse draft pick, the winning still feels like all the seasons where we did.

[traptor]

It will be very telling to see what Maloney amd Bean have to say this offseason...

Hopefully it doesnt echo what they said last offseason and earlier throughout this season.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I don’t think the difference between 7-11 really matters at all this year . The odds of that player being a star are fairly low anyways

What worries me is the team actually thinks they are ….not terrible . That they don’t fully bottom out the next 2 years and get top 3 picks (and pray one turns out to be top 3)

This team is no where near being a contender nor having the pieces to become a contender . Trying to half arse this will result in a very dark decade . Full arse it and you may only be looking at a dark 3-4 years and a much brighter exiting of the darkness

Star is relative, but anyone drafted 7-11th should be a top-6F/top-4D at minimum.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought you wanted to lose?

Read that post again. I said I don't mind them winning if there is long-term benefit. That long-term benefit is playing the kids and get them experience.

Without Zary and Coronato the Flames lose that game.

Really? It wasn't the 28+ minutes Weegar played or the 22+ minutes that Sharangovich played, or the 20+ minutes Backlund played? It was Coronato and Zary? Kadri's two goals with neither of those two on the ice mattered at all and didn't win the game?

Anyway, as for ice time, you should count shifts, not ice time, because ice time is so dependent on what's happening on the ice at the time, and whether some players routinely stretch their shifts. Look at shift numbers - that's the coach deciding how much to play a guy. Last game the kids Zary, Coronato and Pospisil had 18-19 shifts each. That's only a one or two shy of Kuzmenko, Huberdeau, Rooney, it's more than Mangiapane, Hunt, Duehr. Kadri, Backlund and Sharangovich had 23 shifts. There's not a huge gap going on here.

Yeah, Zary really had a big chance to contribute in two 11 second shifts. The number of shifts is much more important than the time you spend on the ice.

Throwing kids in in what you call a nothing game doesn't really help them much anyway. And it can screw them up.

Bull####. Kids need to play and they need experience. If you can't give them time in a game that means nothing, then when the hell are you going to give them ice time? The coaches refuse to do it when the games mean something, so the kids sit on the bench and watch most of the game. How do you get experience if you never get a chance to play in situations? And if playing in a nothing game screws a kid up, they weren't much of a player to begin with.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Anyone who thinks the long term signed veterans are going to get upset because the rookies were given some more PP on game 80 are delusional

You don’t think if you have an honest discussion with Kadri and Weegar that the team wants to see what they have in the younger players and potentially get a better draft choice they would understand and be cooperative

Heck they may even be excited and volunteer to start to golf season a week early and start resting their bodies

They might tell them they want to see the young guys play, but they would never say they are doing it as it increases the chances of losing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Read that post again. I said I don't mind them winning if there is long-term benefit. That long-term benefit is playing the kids and get them experience.



Really? It wasn't the 28+ minutes Weegar played or the 22+ minutes that Sharangovich played, or the 20+ minutes Backlund played? It was Coronato and Zary? Kadri's two goals with neither of those two on the ice mattered at all and didn't win the game?



Yeah, Zary really had a big chance to contribute in two 11 second shifts. The number of shifts is much more important than the time you spend on the ice.



Bull####. Kids need to play and they need experience. If you can't give them time in a game that means nothing, then when the hell are you going to give them ice time? The coaches refuse to do it when the games mean something, so the kids sit on the bench and watch most of the game. How do you get experience if you never get a chance to play in situations? And if playing in a nothing game screws a kid up, they weren't much of a player to begin with.

Without Zary and Coronato’s goals the Flames don’t tie the game (twice). Without them the Flames lose 5-4.

And yes, shifts matter more than time, because guys like Backlund and Kadri extend their shifts - that’s not on coaching or management. The coaches are also pairing rookies with vets a lot. That’s how they learn.

You are just complaining for the sake of complaining at this point.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are just complaining for the sake of complaining at this point.

You say that like this is something new.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Anyone who thinks the long term signed veterans are going to get upset because the rookies were given some more PP on game 80 are delusional

You don’t think if you have an honest discussion with Kadri and Weegar that the team wants to see what they have in the younger players and potentially get a better draft choice they would understand and be cooperative

Heck they may even be excited and volunteer to start to golf season a week early and start resting their bodies

Players don’t give a #### where the team drafts. Half of them will be off the roster before the prospects drafted in the next three seasons are established in the NHL.

They do care about their stats. Because this is their job, and their stats go a long way to determining how much they get paid in the next contract.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The worry about winning is understandable.
The anger from winning is irrational.

It's not the anger from winning. It's the anger from having watched this team do the same thing every season over and over and never get good enough to go anywhere.

I'm tired of losing the games that matter just to win the ones that don't.
I'm tired of "lunchbucket" hockey where we have to rely on outworking other teams, because we don't have enough skill to win any other way.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

What's so wrong about wanting to try drafing as high as we possibly can, instead of the ol' tried-and-true, ride-the-vets, bring-your-workboots, every-game-matters, f***-the-draft aproach we take every year at this time when we've been eliminated?


(and before JRando goes off on me... "every year" is meant as a metaphor for "it feels like this happens every year, because it has happened enough times to feel that way" ... "every year" is not being used as a scientifically-sound, exact form of measurment of literally every single year's worth of events since the dawn of time... nobody needs a list of every single season that doesn't match every single word I've used. I'm making a point, not giving a dissertation.)

[Jason14h]

Of the bottom 10 teams only one team won their last game! Guess who that is !

And all but 2 have lost 2+ in a row. Guess the only team to have won 2 in a row (Clearly the same team that won their last game as well)

Typical as a Flames fan

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/41973491
https://www.espn.com/nhl/game/_/game...coyotes-flames
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401560513
https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/arizon...boxscore-41294
https://fieldlevelmedia.com/news/naz...-over-coyotes/

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Of the bottom 10 teams only one team won their last game! Guess who that is !

And all but 2 have lost 2+ in a row. Guess the only team to have won 2 in a row (Clearly the same team that won their last game as well)

Typical as a Flames fan

Your sample size is a tad small. How many played Anaheim and Arizona? How many have gone 3-9 in their last 12? Flames have a worse record since the TDL than any other team I think.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Of the bottom 10 teams only one team won their last game! Guess who that is !

And all but 2 have lost 2+ in a row. Guess the only team to have won 2 in a row (Clearly the same team that won their last game as well)

Typical as a Flames fan

Now you're just complaining to complain!

If the Flames didn't win these last two they would be in a position to draft 6th, and a real shot at drafting 5th, instead of drafting 9th. So yeah, winning these meaningless games can have some significant impact. There's only one thing that is worse than being a bottom feeder, and that's being a bottom feeder who only beats other bottom feeders when it prevents you from accessing talent needed to no longer be a bottom feeder.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Your sample size is a tad small. How many played Anaheim and Arizona? How many have gone 3-9 in their last 12? Flames have a worse record since the TDL than any other team I think.

Can always be worse!

Raptors showed how to pull off a proper tank to improve their chance at keeping their pick

The only players who got the assignment right on the Flames is Backlund and Markstrum who have both been horrible since the deadline

True veterans helping the team !

[GioforPM]

They fell from drafting about 15tg or so to 9th. Not bad. They needed help to get that far and they needed help to drop more.

[1qqaaz]

I’m all for team tank, but there isn’t really anyone to be mad at as far as the recent wins go. Huska is doing his job. Conroy has given Huska practically no defensemen and traded away half the vets. Some of the surrounding teams in the standings are truly bad and probably should be drafting higher.

I guess I blame Ingram for his complete incompetence in the last game. Yes, I’ll be mad at Ingram.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by traptor

What an all-star.

2022-23 Calgary Flames NHL 79 15 40 55 36 2
2023-24 Calgary Flames NHL 79 12 40 52 47 -28

What a terrible response.

Never made the case that he's an all star or should be revered.

But he's one of Calgary's best players since January 1st and certainly since the trade deadline.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

It's not the anger from winning. It's the anger from having watched this team do the same thing every season over and over and never get good enough to go anywhere.

I'm tired of losing the games that matter just to win the ones that don't.
I'm tired of "lunchbucket" hockey where we have to rely on outworking other teams, because we don't have enough skill to win any other way.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

What's so wrong about wanting to try drafing as high as we possibly can, instead of the ol' tried-and-true, ride-the-vets, bring-your-workboots, every-game-matters, f***-the-draft aproach we take every year at this time when we've been eliminated?


(and before JRando goes off on me... "every year" is meant as a metaphor for "it feels like this happens every year, because it has happened enough times to feel that way" ... "every year" is not being used as a scientifically-sound, exact form of measurment of literally every single year's worth of events since the dawn of time... nobody needs a list of every single season that doesn't match every single word I've used. I'm making a point, not giving a dissertation.)

Not sure I remember a year where they shed 5 UFAs for futures and promoted this many rookies.

Maybe your frustration should have an expiry date?