[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[CroFlames]

I say this in all seriousness, they better be designing the new rink to last 100 years.

If not, then the minute the new rink opens, a committee should be formed to immediately begin planning the demolition and construction of a new one.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I say this in all seriousness, they better be designing the new rink to last 100 years.

If not, then the minute the new rink opens, a committee should be formed to immediately begin planning the demolition and construction of a new one.

I find that incredibly unrealistic.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I find that incredibly unrealistic.

Why though? Why do stadiums and arenas wear out so quickly compared to other big and unusual structures. The Calgary Tower is 55 years old, and I don't recall anyone talking about the need to demolish and rebuild it. Tons of old ass buildings in a city like New York that seem to be OK structurally.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Redlan

So hyperbole then…good to know. You meant all that in your “eat your money…it’s just greed” post? Not once have the “sameself billionaires” refused, in fact they have never been asked. The city has yet to tell them they had to do it themselves. Faced with the possibility that a partnership may not be a reality they indicated they are unwilling. Partnership is the key here with both side seeing there is benefits. The idea that this was some hostile takeover of the city budget is a false premise. There are benefits to others including me, I flew from Calgary to Vancouver for a concert last weekend. Stayed, eat, drank, golfed (pitch and put Stanley Park-what and awesome deal!), road public transit- Seatrain, paid for entrance to Capilano Suspension Bridge Park. All-in-all we spent a couple of thousand dollars per couple that we could have spent in Calgary if it offered the same level of entertainment as Vancouver. And we were not the only ones. It’s a disgrace that Edmonton and Vancouver can host these concerts and Calgary misses out on the tourist revenue.Calgary need to be a destination and the Event Center is one of the solutions. But blah blah blah billionaires, its a fricken broken record, just self righteous blinders. This is the hill you are going to die on? There are bigger taxpayer funded issues out there.

Yes, and if Calgary had the same weather as Vancouver, it would be great, too. Can your billionaire pals please arrange that?

The point is not that they "refused" to build it themselves...they never frickin' bothered to advance the possibility. Why? Because they don't want to spend their own money. And then walked away from a paltry few additional tens of millions of cost when they had the chance. That's your Calgary ownership billionaires in spades, hmm?

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why though? Why do stadiums and arenas wear out so quickly compared to other big and unusual structures. The Calgary Tower is 55 years old, and I don't recall anyone talking about the need to demolish and rebuild it. Tons of old ass buildings in a city like New York that seem to be OK structurally.

Because of the level of innovation and fan experience expectations that change over the course of a decade, much less over a century.

I'd say for the most part, skyscrapers are primarily utilitarian in nature. But an arena/event centre is so much more and the unknown complexities around future-proofing such a building for that long of time is just not feasible.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why though? Why do stadiums and arenas wear out so quickly compared to other big and unusual structures. The Calgary Tower is 55 years old, and I don't recall anyone talking about the need to demolish and rebuild it. Tons of old ass buildings in a city like New York that seem to be OK structurally.

Sure, but MSG went through a $1B renovation recently. So yes, you can still have the same footprint, but you'll still need to replace things after 40 years because of wear and tear. So what's the difference between renovating an existing building for $1B vs. building a brand new one for $1B?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Because of the level of innovation and fan experience expectations that change over the course of a decade, much less over a century.

I'd say for the most part, skyscrapers are primarily utilitarian in nature. But an arena/event centre is so much more and the unknown complexities around future-proofing such a building for that long of time is just not feasible.

But that's changing the argument now.

People are saying the Saddledome is falling apart. It NEEDS to be replaced because it is crumbling and will eventually collapse.

Could we not build 100-year stadiums, where you can just renovate the inside i.e.: add luxury boxes and vendors?

[sureLoss]

I mean we could spend the money to repair and modernize the Saddledome but it likely comes at a cost similar to building a new arena.

To rebuild Climate Pledge Arena, it cost $700 million US +.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I mean we could spend the money to repair and modernize the Saddledome but it likely comes at a cost similar to building a new arena.

To rebuild Climate Pledge Arena, it cost $700 million US +.

Can't we just hire slave labour from North Korea like Qatar did.

and we can GUARANTEE they will not die from heat exhaustion here!

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Can't we just hire slave labour from North Korea like Qatar did.

and we can GUARANTEE they will not die from heat exhaustion here!

Lol. Well that's some sort of idea...

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Can't we just hire slave labour from North Korea like Qatar did.

and we can GUARANTEE they will not die from heat exhaustion here!

They just might freeze to death instead, but details, shmetails. I like that you're thinking outside the box!

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Yes, and if Calgary had the same weather as Vancouver, it would be great, too. Can your billionaire pals please arrange that?

The point is not that they "refused" to build it themselves...they never frickin' bothered to advance the possibility. Why? Because they don't want to spend their own money. And then walked away from a paltry few additional tens of millions of cost when they had the chance. That's your Calgary ownership billionaires in spades, hmm?

Pretty sure they walked away because of the cost of inflation that has shown up since the world’s COVID timeout.

Solar panels may have been the catalyst but I think Edwards didn’t want to eat the inflationary costs. So he took his out and negotiated a way better deal.

Who wouldn’t do that.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Because of the level of innovation and fan experience expectations that change over the course of a decade, much less over a century.

I'd say for the most part, skyscrapers are primarily utilitarian in nature. But an arena/event centre is so much more and the unknown complexities around future-proofing such a building for that long of time is just not feasible.

Plus additional revenue streams.

[CroFlames]

In the year 2023, why wouldn't be covering every new building's roof with solar panels.

Calgary is as sunny as any place.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why though? Why do stadiums and arenas wear out so quickly compared to other big and unusual structures. The Calgary Tower is 55 years old, and I don't recall anyone talking about the need to demolish and rebuild it. Tons of old ass buildings in a city like New York that seem to be OK structurally.

An event centre, when it’s running, could be serving anywhere from 5,000-20,000 on a given night 300+ nights a year.

And many of those people will be out for a good time. They’re going to be hard on the place.

It’s not an office building where everyone where’s business casual at their most informal and nobody is in a state to cause a sliver of extra wear and tear.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In the year 2023, why wouldn't be covering every new building's roof with solar panels.

Calgary is as sunny as any place.

I suspect this is a supply issue - I doubt the capacity exists to produce that many solar panels, even if we wanted to.

Sorta like hybrids and EVs - it’s all well and good to say “no more gas cars” but it runs into problems when the materials aren’t available in large enough quantities.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

But that's changing the argument now.

People are saying the Saddledome is falling apart. It NEEDS to be replaced because it is crumbling and will eventually collapse.

Could we not build 100-year stadiums, where you can just renovate the inside i.e.: add luxury boxes and vendors?

The Flames and City don't need a new arena because structurally it might fall apart. If people are saying that, you are correct, it's not why we "need / want" a new rink. Simply ensuring the Saddledome remain structurally sound would be very easy and affordable if that solved the actual problem.

The problem is the building is no longer appropriately functional to be useful. Buildings down town example, get updated / renoed all the time to keep them functional for the changes over the years. As many have pointed out, in this situation, it's likely cheaper to build new, vs. retroing the Saddledome.

They can absolutely construct a building that can "stay standing" for 100 years. Expecting they can future proof functionality for anything close to that time frame is silliness.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Over the years I have been in a whole lot of NFL, college, NBA, and NHL stadiums/arenas and while some are nicer than others, I wouldn't pay extra for the "fan experience" in one over the other. What is memorable is the game itself and the view from where we were sitting.

But the bathroom thing is kind of a big deal. Even more so if you're a STH.

Interesting, because I feel the exact opposite. I have been fortunate enough to attend games and shows throughout North America and elsewhere, and for me, the memories center around the building, the amenities, and the surrounding area - the experience. The games are rarely memorable (other than important playoff games, or great shows), but the experience, and who I attended with, are what endure.

I do agree that the bathroom thing is, in fact, a very big deal though.

[accord1999]

Regarding washrooms, here's Steve Ballmer proudly touting how many toilets and urinals his new arena is going to have:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1633227791733870593

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I mean we could spend the money to repair and modernize the Saddledome but it likely comes at a cost similar to building a new arena.

To rebuild Climate Pledge Arena, it cost $700 million US +.

Wasn't Climate Pledge $1.1b and it was also a "hybrid" project for lack of a better term. It was mostly a new construction project but they also incorporated parts of the previous structure.

[Toonage]

They raised the roof and created a new arena under it