Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[CliffFletcher]

In my experience, a certain percentage of people on forums are #######s, regardless of identity or politics, and don't know how to engage in discussion without making personal attacks. Forums tend to be better off when the #######s are moderated.

Leaving it up to mods to determine that person A can attack person B but not C, and person B can attack person C, and person C can't attack anybody just makes the job of mods harder, and leads to frustration on the part of users.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

These are my views and do not necessarily reflect those of other moderators. I’m speaking as Jiri/Grant not as a moderator of this site.

Clearly these are uncomfortable and tense discussions. It is easy to come over the top and start to moderate by handing out infractions and suspensions. But is that what we need right now? Or do we need to allow ourselves and demand ourselves to actually sit with the discomfort and tension?

Far be it for me to speak on behalf of members of our community that are black or part of other minorities, but it seems like those people have been subjected to racist/discriminatory language for their entire lives….but as soon as someone is accused of being a racist now the line has been crossed? I don’t know – but it reeks a little of white fragility to me.

If someone is saying your are a racist…I would ask yourself why they have come to that conclusions. What behaviors, patterns and things have you said or done that have led them to saying that? Self-reflect instead of react. Because, in my experience, people don’t toss that stuff around for no reason.

If you disagree with Crown Royal he calls you racist, if you present facts to Crown Royal he calls you racist, if you defend police, Crown Royal calls you racist. If you don’t believe Crown Royals sob story about the time he got pulled over he calls you a racist, if you explain how a judge or jury could potentially find police officer not guilty of a murder charge, Crown Royal calls you racist.

Crown Royal likes to have race discussions provided the discussion is him calling anybody who disagrees with him racist.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

If you disagree with Crown Royal he calls you racist, if you present facts to Crown Royal he calls you racist, if you defend police, Crown Royal calls you racist. If you don’t believe Crown Royals sob story about the time he got pulled over he calls you a racist, if you explain how a judge or jury could potentially find police officer not guilty of a murder charge, Crown Royal calls you racist.

Crown Royal likes to have race discussions provided the discussion is him calling anybody who disagrees with him racist.

And yet, many people have done all of the above (except refusing to believe his story, I'm not sure you'll get much sympathy for getting a negative reaction when you call someone a liar) and not been called racist.

So, is it a reflection of Crown Royal that you mistakenly believe all of these things result in being accused of racism, or is it worth reflecting on why these things result in being accused of racism for certain people?

I mean if your theory was true, indes, Cecil, Corsi, and myself all would have been called outright racist for disagreeing with Crown's approach or calling it undeserved, no? Is that what happened? Were we all called racists? I guess I'll have to check my notes.

Honest question, no leading, no bull####. Have any of the few people here that have been called "racist" questioned whether or not their views might be racist? Or has that part of the equation been missed? I get that the accusation is not nice, but really, have you ever questioned your own beliefs to see if racism has had an effect on the way you think?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Dude, he clearly tried to tar me as a "defender of racism" when in fact the only thing I was defending was civil discourse. That's not okay.

If we're all allowed to call each other pieces of #### and the like now because we don't agree with what someone else thinks about a particular issue, or how they've expressed, it, fine. As long as the rules are clear and everyone's playing by the same ones, we can proceed. But I don't think that sort of discourse is, in fact, "what we need right now", as Jiri put it in his post.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

These are my views and do not necessarily reflect those of other moderators. I’m speaking as Jiri/Grant not as a moderator of this site.

Clearly these are uncomfortable and tense discussions. It is easy to come over the top and start to moderate by handing out infractions and suspensions. But is that what we need right now? Or do we need to allow ourselves and demand ourselves to actually sit with the discomfort and tension?

Far be it for me to speak on behalf of members of our community that are black or part of other minorities, but it seems like those people have been subjected to racist/discriminatory language for their entire lives….but as soon as someone is accused of being a racist now the line has been crossed? I don’t know – but it reeks a little of white fragility to me.

If someone is saying your are a racist…I would ask yourself why they have come to that conclusions. What behaviors, patterns and things have you said or done that have led them to saying that? Self-reflect instead of react. Because, in my experience, people don’t toss that stuff around for no reason.

This is a garbage take, in a pretty garbage post. From a mod too. I realize you say that you're posting this without the mod hat on, but that's my opinion.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Dude, he clearly tried to tar me as a "defender of racism" when in fact the only thing I was defending was civil discourse. That's not okay.

If we're all allowed to call each other pieces of #### and the like now because we don't agree with what someone else thinks about a particular issue, or how they've expressed, it, fine. As long as the rules are clear and everyone's playing by the same ones, we can proceed. But I don't think that sort of discourse is, in fact, "what we need right now", as Jiri put it in his post.

If the CP mod team is going to take the stance that calling people racist pieces of #### is ok for disagreeing on basics facts of a public case like Miss Taylors, then this place will quickly become an unreadable war zone like the commentary section of Fox News or youtube.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Oh? What racism am I defending by suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to personally attack other posters in violation of the forum rules? Please specifically quote where I have "defended racism". That's a horrible thing to accuse someone of, so I want you to be clear if you're accusing me of it.

It's been stated multiple times why I called him what I did. And yet you are defending him and his behaviors. Defending someone who is marginalizing and denying black struggles, is defending racism.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Dude, he clearly tried to tar me as a "defender of racism" when in fact the only thing I was defending was civil discourse. That's not okay.

If we're all allowed to call each other pieces of #### and the like now because we don't agree with what someone else thinks about a particular issue, or how they've expressed, it, fine. As long as the rules are clear and everyone's playing by the same ones, we can proceed. But I don't think that sort of discourse is, in fact, "what we need right now", as Jiri put it in his post.

Civil discourse? On what ####ing planet is someone marginalizing a minority "civil discourse"

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Civil discourse? On what ####ing planet is someone marginalizing a minority "civil discourse"

No one is marginalizing anyone. Stop making #### up. #######.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

It's been stated multiple times why I called him what I did. And yet you are defending him and his behaviors. Defending someone who is marginalizing and denying black struggles, is defending racism.

No, it isn't, any more than suggesting that a murderer receive the benefit of due process is defending murder.

I want you to follow the rules of the forum, which - until now apparently - required that you not call other posters "pieces of ####ing ####". That does not imply anything at all about the attitude I hold towards the substance of his posts. I am objecting to the substance of yours.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And yet, many people have done all of the above (except refusing to believe his story, I'm not sure you'll get much sympathy for getting a negative reaction when you call someone a liar) and not been called racist.

So, is it a reflection of Crown Royal that you mistakenly believe all of these things result in being accused of racism, or is it worth reflecting on why these things result in being accused of racism for certain people?

I mean if your theory was true, indes, Cecil, Corsi, and myself all would have been called outright racist for disagreeing with Crown's approach or calling it undeserved, no? Is that what happened? Were we all called racists? I guess I'll have to check my notes.

Honest question, no leading, no bull####. Have any of the few people here that have been called "racist" questioned whether or not their views might be racist? Or has that part of the equation been missed? I get that the accusation is not nice, but really, have you ever questioned your own beliefs to see if racism has had an effect on the way you think?

This is about more than calling someone racist.

It’s about using frequent insults and in general bringing down the high level of discussion in his thread.

I’d get offended if called racist. But I can defend myself against that.

What I can’t defend against, and no one should have to, is someone having a total meltdown, weaponizing the term racist, using many other direct insults that have nothing to do with race at all and encouraging a mob mentality while encouraging low effort posts based entirely on character assassination.

It’s unfathomable to me that anyone could defend crown royal here. He’s spewing hate. It’s not cool.

And frankly Jiri, letting him off the hook because he’s black screams of white saviour on your part. You’re the one who is patronizing him so it’s funny you’d have the gall to accuse others (without even calling them out by name) of white fragility.


Edit: Messed up my multi quote but I’m too lazy to fix it. This is a reply to Jiri and Pepsi.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And yet, many people have done all of the above (except refusing to believe his story, I'm not sure you'll get much sympathy for getting a negative reaction when you call someone a liar) and not been called racist.

So, is it a reflection of Crown Royal that you mistakenly believe all of these things result in being accused of racism, or is it worth reflecting on why these things result in being accused of racism for certain people?

I mean if your theory was true, indes, Cecil, Corsi, and myself all would have been called outright racist for disagreeing with Crown's approach or calling it undeserved, no? Is that what happened? Were we all called racists? I guess I'll have to check my notes.

Honest question, no leading, no bull####. Have any of the few people here that have been called "racist" questioned whether or not their views might be racist? Or has that part of the equation been missed? I get that the accusation is not nice, but really, have you ever questioned your own beliefs to see if racism has had an effect on the way you think?

Actually on the main board I was outright called a liar by a poster for telling my story.

The only people I have called racists are people marginalizing what is happening to people.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

These are my views and do not necessarily reflect those of other moderators. I’m speaking as Jiri/Grant not as a moderator of this site.

Clearly these are uncomfortable and tense discussions. It is easy to come over the top and start to moderate by handing out infractions and suspensions. But is that what we need right now? Or do we need to allow ourselves and demand ourselves to actually sit with the discomfort and tension?

Far be it for me to speak on behalf of members of our community that are black or part of other minorities, but it seems like those people have been subjected to racist/discriminatory language for their entire lives….but as soon as someone is accused of being a racist now the line has been crossed? I don’t know – but it reeks a little of white fragility to me.

If someone is saying your are a racist…I would ask yourself why they have come to that conclusions. What behaviors, patterns and things have you said or done that have led them to saying that? Self-reflect instead of react. Because, in my experience, people don’t toss that stuff around for no reason.

It is a hard thread to moderate because of the obvious sensitive issue being discussed, but I honestly do not understand how someone can get away with obvious personal attacks regardless of what the thread is about.

I make my fair share of jabs, and I expect warnings for them, especially lately. But I think this has gone a lot farther than that, and even the people that have stated that civil discourse needs to be respected are now being labeled as racist losers.

So while I agree with saying some of us need to suck it up, there is some obvious rule breaking going on here, and you are ignoring it because of supposed 'white fragility.' Strange position to take.

[TorqueDog]

Couldn't this really all be summed up as "Don't be a d*ck to each other"?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I mean if your theory was true, indes, Cecil, Corsi, and myself all would have been called outright racist for disagreeing with Crown's approach or calling it undeserved, no? Is that what happened? Were we all called racists? I guess I'll have to check my notes.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Leaving aside that I don't agree with any of your premises... what are you suggesting? Are you now accusing me of being a racist too? Does that label apply to anyone who challenges you for acting like this, in your mind?

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

What am I suggesting? I'm not suggesting anything, I am am stating outright, you are defending racism.

I think that's pretty much what he did here.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Leaving it up to mods to determine that person A can attack person B but not C, and person B can attack person C, and person C can't attack anybody just makes the job of mods harder, and leads to frustration on the part of users.

I call person A.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Dude, he clearly tried to tar me as a "defender of racism" when in fact the only thing I was defending was civil discourse. That's not okay.

If we're all allowed to call each other pieces of #### and the like now because we don't agree with what someone else thinks about a particular issue, or how they've expressed, it, fine. As long as the rules are clear and everyone's playing by the same ones, we can proceed. But I don't think that sort of discourse is, in fact, "what we need right now", as Jiri put it in his post.

The conversation is around the labels of racism. Yes, I think calling someone a piece of #### is probably over the top, but given that emotions run high in certain circumstances, it is what it is. We're all adults. Do they ban Crown and White Out for being rude in the heat of the moment and be done with it? Uh... I guess... or they could just let it simmer.

On the actual topic though, you weren't called racist, but have you actually reflected on what you said at all? You said "one poster is just allowed to come in and call other people racist pieces of #### because he doesn't like what they've said." Is that a fair comment to make? Do you really think it's just because he didn't like what he said? I've seen Crown dislike what a lot of people said, so it would make sense that his just calls anyone and everyone a racist piece of ####, right? Heaven help the people who make trade proposals he doesn't like!

Again, part of the statement was needless, and I know you are with a couple other people in thinking that "racist" is a bad word and should be reserved for only the most obvious of occasions. I know other posters believe calling someone racist should be grounds for a ban. But at a certain point, what are you actually defending when you brush off any claim of racism because it doesn't fit your notion of what racism looks like to you, a well-off white person, and go around criticising anyone who uses the word?

There are times to be a champion of decorum, politeness, and all that. When do you make the time to just stop and listen, instead of inerjecting, and ask "is this person, who has actually experienced racism unlike myself, seeing something I am missing." You can still disagree with the approach, but you dismissed Crown's position outright because of the approach. Is that any more fair than what he said about you?

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This is about more than calling someone racist.

It’s about using frequent insults and in general bringing down the high level of discussion in his thread.

I’d get offended if called racist. But I can defend myself against that.

What I can’t defend against, and no one should have to, is someone having a total meltdown, weaponizing the term racist, using many other direct insults that have nothing to do with race, at all and encouraging a mob mentality while encouraging low effort posts based entirely on character assassination.

It’s unfathomable to me that anyone could defend crown royal here. He’s spewing hate. It’s not cool.

And frankly Jiri, letting him off the hook because he’s black screams of white saviour on your part. You’re the one who is patronizing him so it’s funny you’d have the gall to accuse others (without even calling them out by name) of white fragility.

"High level of discussion", Really? White Out has a distinct pattern, he comes in, blames the black victims, denies the existence of systemic racism, gets called out, leaves, comes back a week or two later, blames the black victim, denies the existence f systemic racism, gets called out, leaves, rinse, lather repeat.

That is not a high level of discussion, that is intentionally stirring the pot and marginalizing the plight of a race. How is that not racist?

The fact posters like yourself and Corsi can't see that, or are just blatantly ignoring it, means you are part of the problem.

And you saying crap like I'm getting a free pass because I'm black and claiming I am "weaponizing" the term racist is so beyond ignorant.

Maybe you need to take a long had look in the mirror, because what you are doing is not right.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

On the actual topic though, you weren't called racist,

Are you saying "defender of racism" and "racist" are two distinct groups? I'd lump them together and I think that's a weird semantics argument to make. Or did you just miss the post where he did claim the Corsi was defending racism?

[nik-]

The Cape Breton move makes sense though.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The conversation is around the labels of racism. Yes, I think calling someone a piece of #### is probably over the top, but given that emotions run high in certain circumstances, it is what it is. We're all adults. Do they ban Crown and White Out for being rude in the heat of the moment and be done with it? Uh... I guess... or they could just let it simmer.

On the actual topic though, you weren't called racist, but have you actually reflected on what you said at all? You said "one poster is just allowed to come in and call other people racist pieces of #### because he doesn't like what they've said." Is that a fair comment to make? Do you really think it's just because he didn't like what he said? I've seen Crown dislike what a lot of people said, so it would make sense that his just calls anyone and everyone a racist piece of ####, right? Heaven help the people who make trade proposals he doesn't like!

Again, part of the statement was needless, and I know you are with a couple other people in thinking that "racist" is a bad word and should be reserved for only the most obvious of occasions. I know other posters believe calling someone racist should be grounds for a ban. But at a certain point, what are you actually defending when you brush off any claim of racism because it doesn't fit your notion of what racism looks like to you, a well-off white person, and go around criticising anyone who uses the word?

There are times to be a champion of decorum, politeness, and all that. When do you make the time to just stop and listen, instead of inerjecting, and ask "is this person, who has actually experienced racism unlike myself, seeing something I am missing." You can still disagree with the approach, but you dismissed Crown's position outright because of the approach. Is that any more fair than what he said about you?

I don't know if this on purpose, because you're a shrewd online agitator, but I take VERY little beef with someone calling me an #######. It's calling me a racist that is pissing me off. I don't care if he calls me an #######, if CP wants this place to be a foxnews comments section, so be it. But I won't stand for an internet troll to levy accusations of racism at me without an answer. #### him and his accusations of racism.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

No Pepsi, I use judgement.


If we’re at a peaceful BLM rally and some jag off starts shouting “kill all ######s”, then CR can have at ‘er. That’s an easy interpretation for us all to make.


When we’re online, and no one can even see each other’s skin colour, and WO403 posts a controversial opinion but does not appear to say or even imply anything overtly racist*, then you’re goddamn right I’m going to blame the guy who freaked out, regardless of the colour of his skin (which I can’t even see).


It’s a witch hunt. It’s an excuse to treat another person like #### because you are projecting an imaginary bogey man into their place.


* at least based on CR’s insane over the top replies, I won’t pretend to be following WO’s moves and motivations in this thread with any detail. in fact that goes for everyone ITT. I hope I’m not making those kinds of leaps in logic and instead actually read the content and then reply. Not fill in gaps based on some perceived agenda the poster has outside CP. Like we all have nothing better to do than perfectly time our posts to maximize the effect on CR’s life.