American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Tucker Carlson is a centrist now?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/pol...cy-backsliding



Honestly, I think one of the worst things centrists have done over the last several years has been the humanizing of fascism in the name of liberalism and discourse. These people are disingenuous grifters or (worse) zealots, and you should not seek common ground with them.

FFS.

Seriously? Gimme a break Rube. No centrist would ever be okay with fascism. Way to build a strawman.

How about this? Liberalism and discourse is the method of dismantling fascism! By exposing people to the ugly truth by engaging and showing how their ideology doesn't align with what people actually want is the only way to really stop it. Otherwise it festers continuously under the surface.

It doesn't come without stress or consternation, but it surely is the only way to actually deal with it because if you don't engage at all they become strengthened in their righteousness because they aren't being listened to.

[PsYcNeT]

Or, letting guys like Tucker Carlson continue to air "Dogwhistle: Live!" for years on end is a bad thing and does exactly what Rube says.

Carlson got dismantled live on TV 17 years ago with "discourse and liberalism" which worked under the "old" system, but he came back and for the last 10 he's been stoking the flames of fascist rhetoric nightly, twisting said discourse and accelerating hate against minority groups, immigrants and vulnerable people.

Deplatforming works way better than "exposing the truth". Milo who?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Who is "letting" him? He works for Fox. Who are these mysterious centrists in charge of Fox who are scheduling programming to further their centrist goals?

The people "letting" him do this have no political agenda at all, they just want money.

[PsYcNeT]

You're correct actually, this is what I get for responding before coffee.

Ultimately, the Overton Window has shifted so gradually right that guys like Carlson are "mainstream" voices in 2021. Established figures in fact. It's not to say that the Bill O'Reilley's and Rush Limbaugh's of yesteryear didn't have their humdingers of opinions, but Carlson is saying and doing things that have moved beyond general crank behavior and well into dangerous territory.

I guess in a more roundabout way, centrists are mostly responsible for allowing the Overton Window to shift as much as it has, on a communal scale anyhow.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

It hasn't shifted so much as expanded. That's what happens when every audience has an outlet that caters to them specifically - a wider range of ideologies gain their foothold. When given the option, apes like us group up and drift towards the extremes over time. The YouTube algorithm works the way it does because, well, it works.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't think that's leftier than me, tbh. I believe banks and natural resources should be nationalized. Probably telecommunications as well. I'm also pragmatic to understand I'm never going to see that in Canada in my lifetime.

This is interesting and maybe a different thread and discussion. What do you think gets better when you go full communist on banks and natural resources?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

As the kids would say, conservative attack ads are cringe.

I agree but all attack ads are cringe, really.

[GirlySports]

I thought it was the opposite, people in the center are slowly considered as right wing. The wokesters on the left have everyone walking on eggshells. Eventually Rubecube will be considered right wing once he misspeaks about something.

For example, what do you guys think of Malcolm Gladwell? He's now being considered right wing. He's considered right wing due to his 10,000 hours, broken windows and junk science philosophies. And people who did their 10,000 hours and still not succeeding? Well that's just bad luck or bad timing. Very oversimplistic. He's beginning to go on more and more conservative podcasts.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I thought it was the opposite, people in the center are slowly considered as right wing. The wokesters on the left have everyone walking on eggshells. Eventually Rubecube will be considered right wing once he misspeaks about something.

For example, what do you guys think of Malcolm Gladwell? He's now being considered right wing. He's considered right wing due to his 10,000 hours, broken windows and junk science philosophies. And people who did their 10,000 hours and still not succeeding? Well that's just bad luck or bad timing. Very oversimplistic. He's beginning to go on more and more conservative podcasts.

Personally just my opinion I think that where the United States has drifted (very) right and now you have the Democrats who seem almost centrist, not really Liberal- we have the exact opposite occurring in Canada.

Canada has drifted (very) left and now the right leaning parties need to move to center if they want any hope in forming government. You have a prominent poster here who just said he wants (all) natural resources and banks nationalized under what I would call an very corrupt government. That this is a reasonable thing to do. Think about that for a second. It also is ostrich like refusal to acknowledge the benefits of market based economic systems which over the last century or so have demonstrated far greater economic efficiency over nationalized industries. At its' heart, the belief that government provides this ray of sunshine and light escaping the problems of capitalist corporatism is hilarious. As if governments, like corporations, are not made up of human beings with fundamentally the exact same human flaws.

So the juxtaposition for Canadians is that you live in an increasing left of center society but absorb a lot of American right of center media.

Social media has done nothing but drive ordinary people to extremes of the spectrum and refuse to display empathy. This goes for everybody, including the rubecube, Pepsifree and Psycnets of the world, despite their reluctance to admit it and as people like Cliff have pointed out. I think that in fairness to these positions though, it has been the right wing zealots that have steadfastly refused to play by the ordinary rules because they just aren't benefitting from them anymore. As has been mentioned ad nausem, to think that ordinary breadbasket Americans just lap onto Trump because "they're all idiots" is folly of the highest order. Rather I think that people are people, and the (very) large majority of people are centrist by nature that just want to take care of their families and live a decent life. There is an elitist left going on in North America today, and there is an elitist left that just refuses to acknowledge its' shortcomings. It's just the way it is. A permeating arrogance that looks condescendingly down on the lower to middle-lower class and then wonders why Trump and the Republicans are as popular as they are. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so absolutely dangerous. But it is incumbent on all people to look at their shortcomings and how to make things better- not fall into fascism via the right, nor communism as to the left (nationalize banks and resources?!), as if one is a better solution to the other when we know from history neither is the best.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

"On the left" and "on the right" just have way less meaning than 10 years ago. Each descriptor encompasses a broad array of people who have very little in common ideologically. There are people in each category who probably dislike other people in the same category as them more than they do certain people in the other category.

[Mr.Coffee]

Maybe but you end up having to choose between two or three parties and that’s it so it’s not like North American democracy allows for freedom of political expression outside of simple left or right dichotomies and furthermore if you were to ask “subgroups” of traditionally left leaning parties they have more in common than “right” leaning parties or subgroups.

Generally “left” and “right” have been probably the best descriptors we have and why almost the entire planet uses these simple delineations.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I thought it was the opposite, people in the center are slowly considered as right wing. The wokesters on the left have everyone walking on eggshells. Eventually Rubecube will be considered right wing once he misspeaks about something.

For example, what do you guys think of Malcolm Gladwell? He's now being considered right wing. He's considered right wing due to his 10,000 hours, broken windows and junk science philosophies. And people who did their 10,000 hours and still not succeeding? Well that's just bad luck or bad timing. Very oversimplistic. He's beginning to go on more and more conservative podcasts.

Can we please ban the term ‘woke’ in this forum? The term originated in the African-American community in the 1930s to express the need to be vigilant to the dangers of racism around them. That it has been appropriated by both left and right is insulting to the original meaning.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

How about we don't ban the use of words on a discussion forum?

I mean, for ####'s sake.

[Mr.Coffee]

Not only that, words can take over new meanings, and have, for centuries.

[D as in David]

If we're not careful, it will no longer be appropriate to appropriate the word "appropriate".

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

"On the left" and "on the right" just have way less meaning than 10 years ago. Each descriptor encompasses a broad array of people who have very little in common ideologically. There are people in each category who probably dislike other people in the same category as them more than they do certain people in the other category.

It's now two big tents. If you are anti-vax, religious, fiscal conservative then you're a racist and if you are pro inclusivity, pro-choice, and want healthcare you're a commie.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

No one calls anyone a commie.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's now two big tents. If you are anti-vax, religious, fiscal conservative then you're a racist and if you are pro inclusivity, pro-choice, and want healthcare you're a commie.

in most cases this is true though

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

No one calls anyone a commie.

Woke is the new term

Can we at least agree to avoid linguistic abominations like ‘wokester’?