A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[FireGilbert]

Solid start to the season. I loved the call backs to the first episode and building up the tension between Jon and Dany. The show is much better when it is grounded in set locations instead of having everyone fast travel everywhere.

[Nyah]

In true GoT fashion:

Daenerys: Dies
Jon: Dies
Arya: Dies
Tyrion: Dies
Sansa: Dies
Cersei: Dies
Jaime: Dies
Bronn: Lives
The Hound: Dies
The Mountain: Dies
Brienne: Dies
Bran: Turns into an elk or something (definitely keeping this one)
Tormund: Lives
Theon: Don't care
Sam: Dies
Jorah: Dies
Varys: Dies
Podrick: Dies
Davos: Lives
Grey Worm: Dies
Euron: Dies
Yara: Dies
Qyburn: Dies
Gendry: Dies
Night King: Lives and somehow becomes a man again.

[Harry Lime]

White Walkers win in a shootout.
Night King rips the dragonglass from his own heart, destroying his own army.
Hot Pie sits the Iron Throne.
Mandates that "Henceforth, all pastries will be buttery".
Thousand years of peace.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Is there anyone still alive who actually knows this for sure anymore?

Wait, did I miss something? I thought he was a bastard?

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Yamer

After re-watching season 7, a lot of it was about placing doubt in Dany being the savior of Westeros. Her leadership was checked and re-checked over and over, and I think a tipping point may be her eradication of the Tarley's.

Tyrion's main job these days seems to be convincing everyone that she's not her father, although she's been shown to be just as ruthless.

I’ve always felt she’s a poor leader as she feels like she’s owed it by right rather then being just, even though we’ve seen she does try to do the right thing. Burning the Tarlys was a major ego thing as well that was a knock against her.

Jon on the other hand (until this episode) has never felt any right to lead but does so by his actions. And puts his people before his pride. A true leader.

I think there will be some tension between the two of them now.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

I’ve always felt she’s a poor leader as she feels like she’s owed it by right rather then being just, even though we’ve seen she does try to do the right thing. Burning the Tarlys was a major ego thing as well that was a knock against her.

Jon on the other hand (until this episode) has never felt any right to lead but does so by his actions. And puts his people before his pride. A true leader.

I think there will be some tension between the two of them now.

Just like Ned, and we all know how that turned out.

[Shazam]

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Just like Ned, and we all know how that turned out.

Not to mention Jon getting himself killed by the Night's Watch.

I've read a lot of interviews with Martin, and he often explains how the books were heavily influenced by the lessons of history. And one of those lessons he cites is that the qualities that make up a good person are very different from the qualities that make up an effective leader. Many of the most effective and enduring leaders in history were ruthless bastards, a truth that Martin baked into the series from the outset.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Wait, did I miss something? I thought he was a bastard?

He is, but since it's a patriarchy, claims run through the male side of the line. Since none of Robert and Cersei's kids were actually Roberts, and Gendry is the last known living 'seed' of Robert, he'd have a viable claim to the Iron Throne.

[fanman]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

He is, but since it's a patriarchy, claims run through the male side of the line. Since none of Robert and Cersei's kids were actually Roberts, and Gendry is the last known living 'seed' of Robert, he'd have a viable claim to the Iron Throne.

True, and it's why Cersei had all of Robert's bastards in King's Landing killed (in the 1st season I believe). They could have been legitimatized and therefore a threat to her and her children's crown.

I enjoyed the start to season 8. They had to get all of the reunions out of the way before the action really starts, and now basically all of the main characters are residing in just 2 castles. I thought they handled the meetings well and the pacing didn't feel rushed. The nods to the first season were also well done.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

He is, but since it's a patriarchy, claims run through the male side of the line. Since none of Robert and Cersei's kids were actually Roberts, and Gendry is the last known living 'seed' of Robert, he'd have a viable claim to the Iron Throne.

Except when we thought Jon was Ned's bastard it was implied he would never have a claim to any throne/Winterfell.
So I'm not sure the patriarchy thing overrules the bastard thing.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Except when we thought Jon was Ned's bastard it was implied he would never have a claim to any throne/Winterfell.
So I'm not sure the patriarchy thing overrules the bastard thing.

Yeah but Jon had about a half dozen people ahead of him.

Generally claims from bastards wouldn’t hold much weight unless there’s no clear successor.

Robert’s brothers are/were dead or traitors. His children with Cersei aren’t his.

With literally no one having a strong claim, Gendry could’ve been a threat.

[Azure]

So the next episodes are expected to be much longer? Only 55 min on the first one.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Azure

So the next episodes are expected to be much longer? Only 55 min on the first one.

Not until episode 3. Next week is also about an hour.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Except when we thought Jon was Ned's bastard it was implied he would never have a claim to any throne/Winterfell.
So I'm not sure the patriarchy thing overrules the bastard thing.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Yeah but Jon had about a half dozen people ahead of him.

Generally claims from bastards wouldn’t hold much weight unless there’s no clear successor.

Robert’s brothers are/were dead or traitors. His children with Cersei aren’t his.

With literally no one having a strong claim, Gendry could’ve been a threat.

There's also the possibility of legitimization, like when Ramsay became a Bolton.

[AltaGuy]

Another theory that I’ve liked has the walkers skipping Winterfell altogether, and heading straight to King’s Landing. No dragons there, and they did make a point of mentioning the 1M inhabitants; a fantastic add to the walkers’ ranks. Cersei would find herself facing the walkers alone... I like it.

[GGG]

My guesses going with the least Cliched and most cynical ending where anyone fighting for the greater good dies and while J+D kill the walkers Cersei takes the Iron throne and Sansa becomes queen of the North with an uneasy peace between them.

Daenerys: Dies, is killed by Jon for trying to kill Sansa.
Jon: Dies
Arya: Dies
Tyrion: Dies
Sansa: Lives, making deal with Cersei to betray Jon
Cersei: Lives
Jaime: Dies
Bronn: Lives, kills Jaime
The Hound: Dies
The Mountain: Lives
Brienne: Dies
Bran: Becomes night king in the past
Tormund: Dies
Theon: Dies
Sam: Dies
Jorah: Dies
Varys: Dies
Podrick: Dies
Davos: Dies
Grey Worm: Dies
Euron: Dies
Yara: Dies
Qyburn: Dies
Gendry: Dies
Melisandre: Dies
Ghost: Dies
Nymeria: Dies
Night King: Dies/Destroyed
Dragons - All Die

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Yeah but Jon had about a half dozen people ahead of him.

Generally claims from bastards wouldn’t hold much weight unless there’s no clear successor.

Robert’s brothers are/were dead or traitors. His children with Cersei aren’t his.

With literally no one having a strong claim, Gendry could’ve been a threat.

A famous example would be Henry VII, who was only the great-grandson (through only his mother) of an illegitimate son of a younger son of Edward III, but ended up being the claimant for his faction when everybody else with a stronger claim were dead.

[EldrickOnIce]

The only real claim to the thrones comes from those with the power to hold it. It's always taken by force.
So Daenerys and Cerci have the best claims