Ok, I do like Ashoka but Locke's post/rant was epically awesome.
The fact that at the height of the Galactic civil war, when Ashoka had a chance to leave the world between worlds, she didn't.
I expect that in this series they'll try to piece together what happened after she re-entered the portal in the World between Worlds after Ezra saved her from Vader, and when she picks up Sabine.
A couple of things in that trailer. I don't remember Sabine ever calling Ashoka master, and Sabine isn't a jedi. Its weird, what's the context.
Also that blonde girl has an Padawan braid. And RS states that Anakin spoke highly of Ashoka, so clearly he's another Jedi that side stepped order 66.
Also we clearly have an inquisitor, which has to be a flashback, because Maul, Ezra, Ashoka and Kanan pretty much wiped out the Inquisitors.
Worst part of that series IMO. Such an incredible battle between Vader and Ashoka and it was just "time travel!"ed away. Honestly would have preferred if she died there. Not because I don't like her character, just from a story standpoint.
The one thing over every thing else with Rebels was the last 2 minutes of every season, and the ending of Twilight of the Apprentice was the same.
I remember even on this board, we debated that scene with Ashoka walking into the temple and the Covair that kept showing up. Was she dead, ascendant, did she survive?
I did think that it was a great ending for her character. She sacrificed herself against her old master, and mentor and friend to save her friends. There was no better way to go then with a final heartbreaking duel with Vader, where she desperately wanted to save Anakin, and realized she couldn't.
I've worried about a new series around her, because I think between the Clone Wars and Rebels they did a beautiful job of developing and telling her story. They even gave her what I think is the best light saber fight in the GFFA with her and Maul in Season 7.
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I like her because she makes realistic decisions based on the events that happen around her. That she left the Order after the trial and last minute save was just natural for someone as young as she was who just had her entire world shattered in front of her. Sure, it's not the ideal scenario for her to just leave and not continue to fight, but if she stayed, she might be dead anyways.
I really enjoy characters that are flawed and make questionable decisions as they make them feel more real to me. I hated her at the beginning of the Clone Wars series but over time grew to love the character for the growth between seasons. I do really appreciate Locke's perspective and the time it took to type it all up for a simple response, so thanks for that. And I do agree that from an outside standpoint looking into a fictional universe, it does suck that she left when she did when she could have helped so many people after that.
RE: The World Between Worlds stuff -- I wasn't a huge fan of them saving her that way either. I would have preferred her going out as a defiant badass against her fallen master to be honest. But then we wouldn't have this Ahsoka show so I'm torn.
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I like her because she makes realistic decisions based on the events that happen around her. That she left the Order after the trial and last minute save was just natural for someone as young as she was who just had her entire world shattered in front of her. Sure, it's not the ideal scenario for her to just leave and not continue to fight, but if she stayed, she might be dead anyways.
I really enjoy characters that are flawed and make questionable decisions as they make them feel more real to me. I hated her at the beginning of the Clone Wars series but over time grew to love the character for the growth between seasons. I do really appreciate Locke's perspective and the time it took to type it all up for a simple response, so thanks for that. And I do agree that from an outside standpoint looking into a fictional universe, it does suck that she left when she did when she could have helped so many people after that.
RE: The World Between Worlds stuff -- I wasn't a huge fan of them saving her that way either. I would have preferred her going out as a defiant badass against her fallen master to be honest. But then we wouldn't have this Ahsoka show so I'm torn.
Ugh..."Snips and Sky Guy" made me want to throw up in my mouth.
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Ok, I do like Ashoka but Locke's post/rant was epically awesome.
The fact that at the height of the Galactic civil war, when Ashoka had a chance to leave the world between worlds, she didn't.
I expect that in this series they'll try to piece together what happened after she re-entered the portal in the World between Worlds after Ezra saved her from Vader, and when she picks up Sabine.
A couple of things in that trailer. I don't remember Sabine ever calling Ashoka master, and Sabine isn't a jedi. Its weird, what's the context.
Also that blonde girl has an Padawan braid. And RS states that Anakin spoke highly of Ashoka, so clearly he's another Jedi that side stepped order 66.
Also we clearly have an inquisitor, which has to be a flashback, because Maul, Ezra, Ashoka and Kanan pretty much wiped out the Inquisitors.
Yep that's the one thing in the trailer that gave me pause, I don't expect or WANT Filoni and co. to give Sabine some newfound Jedi powers, so I find it interesting that she's being hinted as a padawan of Ahsoka's or something, also the recording of Ezra telling her how to act selflessly as a Jedi.
I'm thinking the long-term play is for Ezra to become Ahsoka's padawan once they rescue him from the Unknown Regions, and so Sabine will be there in his place for the season until she realizes nah, Mandalorians are pretty dope in their own respect so I'm gonna stick to guns and explosives and you can train Ezra.
Also those two seperate mentions of Anakin in the newest trailer was pretty unexpected. I suppose they need to hammer home the point that she was trained by Anakin to those people who will watch the show but haven't seen Clone Wars/Rebels but still, makes me think we could get a decent amount of Hayden Christianson in this show via flashbacks, force ghost convo's, or world between worlds.
This show looks epic though! If Kathleen Kennedy is finally let go after the box office disaster that was the latest Indiana Jones Dial of Destiny and if this show is a hit success.. maybe Filoni gets full creative control of Star Wars I'm more pumped about this show than any other non-movie they've produced so far. And it's a two-episode premiere too, which means the show will be over just before hockey season *chef's kiss* I wish it was 10 episodes but hey I'll take what we can get.
Worst part of that series IMO. Such an incredible battle between Vader and Ashoka and it was just "time travel!"ed away. Honestly would have preferred if she died there. Not because I don't like her character, just from a story standpoint.
If Vadar had seen a combatant swooped away out of no where right before the coup de grace, I think he would have invested some resources into discovering what the hell that was, and would have found the world between worlds and killed Palpy/saved Padme and Mom. He'd bust every time line to have what he wanted. That would be a good "What If' episode.
Yah, time travel is a stupid mechanism in most sci fi.
Seems like the bads in this show are high republic Jedi and a inquisitor type. Kind of obvious, but maybe the inquisitor is Baris Ofee - Vader found her and turned her setting her loose to hunt down Ashoka.
I'm old enough to remembr seing Ep 4 in the theatre (Marlborough Mall) and I like Ashoka. Her leaving the order was justified. At the end they were self righteous arrogant bureaucrats that deserved to die.
The force re-balances itself. It's a cycle. Jedi get wiped, then rebuilt. Sith get wiped then rebuilt.
There is a rumor of Baris showing up. But remember this series takes place long after the Inquisitorus has basically been shut down, turns out that the idea of the Inquisitors that Palpatine had of them not being strong enough to challenge him and vader meant they really were challenges for Jedi. It could be a flashback that Ashoka has.
the novels explained the fall of the Jedi better then the movies, they were basically ripe for destruction because of their entitlement and arrogance. Also as Yoda realized when he was fighting Palpatine, that the Jedi were training to fight the Sith from like 1000 years ago. Meanwhile the Sith had changed evolved, learned all aspects of the force, and corrupted the Galaxy. Yoda knew at the moment that he fell in the Senate that he just didn't have the skills to beat Palpatine who was a product of Dark Side evolution over 1000 years.
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If Vadar had seen a combatant swooped away out of no where right before the coup de grace, I think he would have invested some resources into discovering what the hell that was, and would have found the world between worlds and killed Palpy/saved Padme and Mom. He'd bust every time line to have what he wanted. That would be a good "What If' episode.
Yah, time travel is a stupid mechanism in most sci fi.
Seems like the bads in this show are high republic Jedi and a inquisitor type. Kind of obvious, but maybe the inquisitor is Baris Ofee - Vader found her and turned her setting her loose to hunt down Ashoka.
I'm old enough to remembr seing Ep 4 in the theatre (Marlborough Mall) and I like Ashoka. Her leaving the order was justified. At the end they were self righteous arrogant bureaucrats that deserved to die.
The force re-balances itself. It's a cycle. Jedi get wiped, then rebuilt. Sith get wiped then rebuilt.
This is a wild statement.
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Not untrue though. In the end the Jedi didn't see it coming because of their arrogance. There was a deleted scene in attack of the Clones where Yoda, Mace and Obi talked about this very thing.
The Jedi had become complacent. They did nothing while corruption grew in the republic. They arrogantly scoffed initially at the return of the Sith. "Sniff, we would have known if the Sith had returned".
Then they allowed themselves to get played. Instead of serving the Force, they served a corrupt republic, and allowed themselves to become generals and commanders in a war being fought between a corrupt and crumbling republic and the separatists. What would have happened if the Jedi had refused to fight?
Instead they walked right into a Jedi killing box and drew the dotted line on their necks and laid on the chopping block.
Yoda even touched on this during his fight with Sidious. The Jedi hadn't evolved. Like France they prepared to fight the last war while the Sith evolved. They learned every aspect of the Force. They studied politics, they created a nasty evolutionary bump with the rule of two. They took advantage of Jedi Complacent.
So why did the 1000 year Sith Empire only last 30 years. Because the Sith became complacent, and arrogant and in a lot of ways lazy. And the Jedi evolved and changed.
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And the Sith revenge is based on multiple Jedi perpetrated genocides on the Sith. Remember that the Sith were originally Jedi. They actually were Jedi that believed in studying all aspects of the force, and that the jedi denial of emotions and attachments was wrong.
Instead of saying no, the Jedi lauched a holy war, wiped out the Dark Jedi, and then banished the survivors to a fate worse then death.
Then the Dark Jedi found the world of the Sith, basically didn't conquer them but convinced them that they were gods.
Eventually the now Sith returned and attacked the Republic, lost and the Jedi followed them back to their homeworld, and instead of negotiating a surrendor of a beaten foe, convinced the Republic to wipe them all out, so it was a second act of butchery and genocide by the Jedi.
The Sith that escaped found another world and flourished building a new Empire. Then eventually returned to seize their home world on Korriban. And tried to conquor the Republic because they believed that the Republic was corrupt, and the Jedi needed to die. At some point that empire fell apart and the Jedi did another act of genocide.
Then a fallen Jedi refounded the Sith and other power hungry Jedi followed and we got another war between the force users that featured innocent civilians dying in the millions, the use of child soldiers by the Jedi, and the glorification of war by the Jedi Generals. This is when Darth Bane rose and founded the rule of 2. Wiped out what was left of the Sith and faded into the background with his apprentice and they enacted the grand plan of destroying the Jedi from the Shadows.
So what's the point of this, and why did the Jedi need to die?
The Jedi were not the enlightened beings of light that they thought they were. They caused the rise of the Sith because they were religious zealots. Perpetrated multiple acts of outright genocide, and believed that the battle between the Darkside and Lightside was not only a holy duty, but that the costs of it didn't matter.
The Sith were what they were, but the idea that they were pure evil is kind of wrong, and Palpatine pointed that out beatifully. The Jedi and Sith belive in the same thing, Peace, Justice and Order. But the Sith believe that the weak serve the strong, and the strong force users should rule for the betterment of the weak.
The Jedi believed in the same thing, they believed in the aquisition of power through knowledge and fought the dark side no matter the cost to the galaxy.
Add on that the Jedi were blind near the end because of their arrogance, once again eagerly waged a destructive war because they believed that the Sith were involved, and didn't understand their enemy, and yeah, they deserved to be wiped out.
And for a time Palpatine deliver exactly what the Sith promised. Peace, Justice and Order. When the Republic and Jedi returned to power we got what these chaos agents promised. Disorder, slavery, economic malaise and corruption.
By my view the Jedi are evil, that's what Anakin said, and he was kind of right. Because the Jedi don't care beyond their dogmatic view of the Galaxy, and everyone around them suffered.
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Not untrue though. In the end the Jedi didn't see it coming because of their arrogance. There was a deleted scene in attack of the Clones where Yoda, Mace and Obi talked about this very thing.
The Jedi had become complacent. They did nothing while corruption grew in the republic. They arrogantly scoffed initially at the return of the Sith. "Sniff, we would have known if the Sith had returned".
Then they allowed themselves to get played. Instead of serving the Force, they served a corrupt republic, and allowed themselves to become generals and commanders in a war being fought between a corrupt and crumbling republic and the separatists. What would have happened if the Jedi had refused to fight?
Instead they walked right into a Jedi killing box and drew the dotted line on their necks and laid on the chopping block.
Yoda even touched on this during his fight with Sidious. The Jedi hadn't evolved. Like France they prepared to fight the last war while the Sith evolved. They learned every aspect of the Force. They studied politics, they created a nasty evolutionary bump with the rule of two. They took advantage of Jedi Complacent.
So why did the 1000 year Sith Empire only last 30 years. Because the Sith became complacent, and arrogant and in a lot of ways lazy. And the Jedi evolved and changed.
It sounds like you've read the "Revenge of the Sith" novelization. Bravo! I maintain to this day it's the single best Star Wars book and if someone is going to read only one, I'd suggest it's this. It really expands on how the Jedi have lost their way and went from being basically a religious order to a quasi-governmental organization during the Clone Wars and expands on just how out of touch the Jedi truly were. It's an incredible book.
Too bad Disney wiped it out of canon.
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It sounds like you've read the "Revenge of the Sith" novelization. Bravo! I maintain to this day it's the single best Star Wars book and if someone is going to read only one, I'd suggest it's this. It really expands on how the Jedi have lost their way and went from being basically a religious order to a quasi-governmental organization during the Clone Wars and expands on just how out of touch the Jedi truly were. It's an incredible book.
Too bad Disney wiped it out of canon.
Yup, I love the novel, especially with the Palpatine final seduction of Anakin to the Dark Side that started with the question of "What do you want?" By that time Anakin was so conflicted about things.
I mean earlier Palpatine asked Anakin the question after Anakin revealed his fears of Padme dying "Who do you love more Obi-wan or Padme? You need to decide"
if you read the ROTS novel, you really need to read Labyrinth of Evil, and Dark Lord the Rise of Darth Vader.
The Dark Lord novel is exceptional, and starts with Vader very much like what we saw in the Obi-Wan novel. Very much just a really angry resentful guilty Anakin in the mask. But by the end he's absolutely terrifying and Anakin is completely gone.
Instead of Vader in the end being a rage machine like Disney wants us to believe. He's utterly Cold.
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It sounds like you've read the "Revenge of the Sith" novelization. Bravo! I maintain to this day it's the single best Star Wars book and if someone is going to read only one, I'd suggest it's this. It really expands on how the Jedi have lost their way and went from being basically a religious order to a quasi-governmental organization during the Clone Wars and expands on just how out of touch the Jedi truly were. It's an incredible book.
Too bad Disney wiped it out of canon.
Just to add on, I still love the Order 66 chip in the head idea because it makes the Clones even more sympathetic in the end. They had no choice, in the end they were droids.
But in the ROTS novel and the Dark Lord Novel. There were no chips. The Jedi didn't understand that the Clones were ultimately loyal to the Republic and had memorized a bunch of Standing Orders. I think order 65 could literally arrest the Supreme Chancellor if the Senate declared him unfit.
But the no chip thing was brilliant because the Clones were utterly used, but still thought they were doing the right thing in following order. Stover wrote about the ultimate Jedi trap, because the Jedi never sensed betrayal or deception in the Clones when they turned. Nor anger, rage. The Clones followed a order that was logical, the Jedi had been declared by the Chancellor as betrayers.
I need to read those three novels again someday.
Quote:
“I never claimed to be the Chosen One. That was Qui-Gon. Even the Council doesn’t believe it anymore, so why should you?”
"Because I think you believe it,” Obi-Wan said calmly.
“I think you know in your heart that you’re meant for something extraordinary.”
“And you, Master. What does your heart tell you you’re meant for?”
“Infinite sadness,” Obi-Wan said, even while smiling.”
― James Luceno, Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil
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Yup. Those three novels make up an incredible trilogy. Some of the best the old EU had to offer.
What I really love about the Revenge of the Sith novel though is the expanded character motivations for everyone, not just Anakin. Count Dooku is really fleshed out and it's interesting to read what he believes the Sith's Grand Plan is and when he realizes he's been a pawn the entire time..."Treachery is the way of the Sith"
Of course Anakin and Palpatine's relationship is greatly expanded and you can really see why Anakin ultimately chose to follow Palpatine and betray the Jedi
Mace Windu comes off terribly in the book (as in the movies honestly). Padme has much more politicking to do and it's fascinating.
It's just the perfect Star Wars novel.
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I'm more pumped about this show than any other non-movie they've produced so far. And it's a two-episode premiere too, which means the show will be over just before hockey season *chef's kiss* I wish it was 10 episodes but hey I'll take what we can get.
