[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

I'm not expert in civil issues particularly, so I suspect that there are more caveats to your comment than may be possible to explain in a forum post.

Nonetheless, it is uncivil, unnecessary and pointless.

If it's unnecessary and pointless, why is it a regular part of every campaign for elected office?

[puffnstuff]

I never see it brought up but dont the Flames get like zero from the parking. It all goes to the Stampede board, I think. I mean the Flames moving from the Dome would hurt the Board, think they have done some politicking on this as well? To keep it close to the grounds so they can still sell parking. I could be wrong on this though.

[Krynn]

Originally Posted by CrazyCaper

I think Murray Edwards is finally voicing his opinion. "Give us what we've been asking for or we'll find someone who will". Never thought it would come to this.

I can't believe all this .

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Well, it would guarantee that the Flames started work on relocating the franchise the very next day. Maybe you would find that hilarious too.

The City can also work on building an arena the next day which they would own. Flames want them to pay majority of it anyways, why not tell the Flames to take a hike, build a an arena city owns and operates, start bringing in concerts, start talking to NBA. Basketball is growing in Canada and proper setup in western Canada can really take off.

Won't be long before Bettman and NHL come knocking on Calgary's door to come back.

NHL/Flames don't have be the only game in town. Transform Calgary from Flames/O&G to something else.

I'm sure the Stamps/Roughnecks/Hitmen would all go up for sale as well, local groups will pick them up.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Murray Edwards' net worth is $2.2 billion, and he isn't even the only owner. That figure is also six years old, and it's entirely possible that it's gone up significantly.

The idea that the Flames' ownership is running out of money is patently absurd.

According to news reports, Murray Edwards is no longer a resident of either Calgary or Canada, from which one can reasonably assume that he also pays taxes to neither.

What he is worth is likely not relevant. What is relevant is that (putatively) a non-resident, non-taxpayer is expecting taxpaying citizens of both Calgary and Canada to pay for his toys.

Personally and professionally, I object to that if it is the case.

[smoothskatingbrodie]

As a fan from Edmonton (but huge flames fan), go ahead and leave if you're going to act so childish. Though I will admit that Rogers Place is very nice, and with the ice district being built, and a couple other high rises being built, our downtown is starting to shape up.

[Freeway]

Just got back from City Hall, how's everyone doing?

[bubbsy]

Sorry i raised part of this question in another thread, but would like to raise it here...

How did a similar sized city, in the same province, that has a similar economic climate, find a deal between the team and the city?

How did a city that's completely broke, in Detroit, manage to get a brand new arena this year (or was it fully funded by the team ownership in this case)??

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Cole436

This is idiotic. The Flames will be losing a significant amount of money moving to Seattle. They'll have to pay a relocation fee which will be significantly more than 100 million dollars, they will have to significantly lower ticket prices, their attendance will be significantly lower over time (just like almost every American city) they will take a massive hit in merchandise revenue and they'll lose a significant amount of money from their TV deal with Rogers.

The amount of money they would lose over a 5 year period would probably pay for the ####ing calgaryNEXT deal.

Really gross tactic by the Flames.

You do get that, if the Flames were to relocate, they would likely be selling to another group that will move it to... wherever.

Maybe the Seattle guys buy and get the Flames as a second tenant in their building.

Whatever - point is that it wouldn't be Edwards et al that would be moving the team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

The City can also work on building an arena the next day which they would own.

So let me get this straight. Public money going to an arena is a bad idea, but if the public teat pays 100 percent of the cost of an arena after the principal tenant is gone, that's somehow good?

You're hilarious. Unintentionally, I'm sure, but hilarious nonetheless.

And the idea that an NBA franchise could work in Calgary? Ask the Vancouver Grizzlies about that one. For that matter, ask the NBA.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by DJones

They aren't running out of money, their accountants are probably just screaming at them that it's a terrible investment.

Probably what the City's accountants are saying too.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Just got back from City Hall, how's everyone doing?

Well, I'm eating a steak. It's a little old and somewhat oddly-shaped, but it still tastes pretty tender and really fits my vision of an "ideal steak". My waiter is trying to get me to trade that steak in for a newer steak, though, one that I won't be able to eat without paying an additional $30 "community revitalization levy" every time I want to take a bite.

[killer_carlson]

I don't think the Flames threat is as groundless as some on here are suggesting.

Hands up: How many people thought that Murray Edwards would go from big Trudeau financial booster to relocating his residency out of country less than half way through Trudeau's tenure?

[OmegaV4]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You have a funny sense of humour.

And I don't mean "funny haha".

Is it more along the lines of "funny like a clown, he amuses you?"

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Well, I'm eating a steak. It's a little old and somewhat oddly-shaped, but it still tastes pretty tender and really fits my vision of an "ideal steak". My waiter is trying to get me to trade that steak in for a newer steak, though, one that I won't be able to eat without paying an additional $30 "community revitalization levy" every time I want to take a bite.

Yeah, but your waiter is trying to do that because he'll get fired if the restaurant goes out of business.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Based on the experiences of private arena builders in Montreal, Vancouver, and Ottawa, if a new arena cost $450 million to build, it would have a market value of something like $300 million the day it opened. The rest of the construction cost would be basically unrecoverable.

You want a business decision? How about not pissing $150 million down a rat hole?

So why should taxpayers and then pay through the teeth for tickets, concessions and parking. So the players, owners and management can get even richer?

If it's a bad business decision, don't expect me to pay for it!

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's yet to be determined. Nobody has paid a relocation fee that large before.



Also TBD. The Seattle market is one of the most affluent in the U.S., and hockey has more than 100 years of history there.



Frankly, the Flames actually want lower attendance. They'd love to be in a building that didn't have 2,000 cheap nosebleeds to tempt fans away from the expensive seats in the main bowl. Every proposal I've heard of for a new arena has a smaller seating capacity than the Saddledome.



All merchandise revenue is shared equally by every NHL franchise, except for items sold at a team's own retail outlets.



The Rogers deal is national, and like merchandise, is shared equally by every franchise. The local deal with Rogers would be replaced by a local deal in a much larger media market, and it's difficult to say with any certainty how much they would lose in the transition.



This is just silly. Not even the Coyotes are losing $200 million a year.

The $100 million dollar fee was the estimated fee when Balsille attempted to move Nashville to Hamilton, so a decade later you would assume that's the ballpark we're looking at.

It absolutely is an affluent market, and that doesn't mean that there is the demand to buy luxury priced hockey tickets, especially one that has never had an NHL team. A friend of mine flew down to Anaheim in 2015 for a playoff game and the return flight, hotel and tickets cost less than playoff tickets for game 4 at the Saddledome. There is no reality where the Flames can make as much revenue from ticket prices in Seattle. The only American cities that could charge those prices would be New York or Chicago.

More so what I mean is that the Flames would suddenly be looking at having an arena constantly sold out to one which historically would struggle to be at 3/4 capacity after the initial years, especially if they're struggling.

So then the league and the players themselves would take a hit from the drop in Flames merchandise, something which I can't see the NHLPA being ok with.

I think it would be reaching as well to believe that Seattle would offer a better local deal than Calgary would. It's a saturated sports market, the Flames would be lucky to even be noticed there after their first seasons being stuck well behind their NFL, MLB and their inevitable NBA team.

Ok that was an exaggeration but I don't believe there's a scenario where they come anywhere close to their profitability in Calgary, and the difference will probably be significant.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Sorry i raised part of this question in another thread, but would like to raise it here...

How did a similar sized city, in the same province, that has a similar economic climate, find a deal between the team and the city?

How did a city that's completely broke, in Detroit, manage to get a brand new arena this year (or was it fully funded by the team ownership in this case)??

Because deals are easy to find when a city decides it just wants to completely give in to hand over a ton of money to a team.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Poster

So why should taxpayers and then pay through the teeth for tickets, concessions and parking. So the players, owners and management can get even richer?

If it's a bad business decision, don't expect me to pay for it!

Fair enough. Say goodbye to the Flames, then. It was nice having an NHL team while it lasted.

[CliffFletcher]

Listening to the guys on 960 right now. Embarassing how these guys carry water for the Flames. Do they really believe the stuff they're saying? I guess motivated reasoning can be powerful stuff, but Kerr, Francis and the rest are so out of touch with public sentiment in this city.