Real estate in Calgary - another bubble?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sliver

BTW, when we're talking condos, do we mean the buildings that are like apartments where everybody walks into a main entrance and then scampers off to their individual unit (kind of like a hotel)? Or are the attached buildings with their own individual entrances from outside directly into the owners' units also considered condos in this conversation? Have both types of properties lost value over the past 10 years?

Technically both types of properties are typically set up as condos, as the ownership structure is what defines them as condos. However, the attached property with it's own entrance I'd call a townhouse or attached property. Those are definitely going up in value. In areas around downtown there are even bidding wars for townhouses.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by peter12

I love living in a condo, but I live in a fairly dense neighbourhood with ton of services within easy walking distance. We are also fortunate to live in a nice building in a relatively large unit. Vancouver is a different ball game though.

Calgarians don't care for that

[Muta]

I own a condo that was built in 2006, bought in 2007. Original interiors in it still. I was annoyed that I still have this condo (Calgary's condo market is like a rollercoaster mushroom trip), but here I am 15 years later in the same place, haha. Wish I lived in a townhome, but it is what it is. I'm not likely to get back the original value of the amount I paid. Bought at the WORST possible time. Whatever.

That said, I am getting excited when I am looking at interior upgrades instead of moving for now. I'm actually getting excited for what this place could look like with some new paint/non-carpet flooring/new countertops/completely re-built fireplace. Will likely help sell better down the line too - I plan on making it look like something other condos in my complex are not doing.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by blankall

Technically both types of properties are typically set up as condos, as the ownership structure is what defines them as condos. However, the attached property with it's own entrance I'd call a townhouse or attached property. Those are definitely going up in value. In areas around downtown there are even bidding wars for townhouses.

I downsized into a new townhouse 14 months ago. The units similar to mine are now going for $140 more than I paid for mine. (NW)

[Cappy]

Same Muta,

I bought a condo about 10 years ago. It's definitely taken a 20% hit on value, but I don't really have a reason to sell. At some point having a back yard would be nice, but there is no way i can afford to pay for that in the inner city and i will never move to the burbs.

My partner and i have been looking at some renovations as we plan on being in here at least another 5 years. that is exciting. Waiting for the interest rates to crush HELOC holders and reno rates drop

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Calgarians don't care for that

The ones that do, do, and the ones that don’t, haven’t really had to.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Muta

I own a condo that was built in 2006, bought in 2007. Original interiors in it still. I was annoyed that I still have this condo (Calgary's condo market is like a rollercoaster mushroom trip), but here I am 15 years later in the same place, haha. Wish I lived in a townhome, but it is what it is. I'm not likely to get back the original value of the amount I paid. Bought at the WORST possible time. Whatever.

That said, I am getting excited when I am looking at interior upgrades instead of moving for now. I'm actually getting excited for what this place could look like with some new paint/non-carpet flooring/new countertops/completely re-built fireplace. Will likely help sell better down the line too - I plan on making it look like something other condos in my complex are not doing.

You’re not in Auckland?

[Ozy_Flame]

One initiative that is coming to light is the co-ownership / collective sharing model from Denver-based company Co-Own Co.

Effectively what it is for entry-level home ownership in a residential building that shares commons areas, including living rooms, dining areas, and balconies/outdoor amenities. Instead of paying say $600k for a townhouse or condo, you pay a fraction of that, and have a co-living arrangement with others. This type of model is already in effect for co-living rental spaces. However, this helps address issues with cost, sustainability, and community that is often absence traditional residences.

It's definitely not for everybody - it would be an adjustment of expectations. But the way the world is going, I don't see how co-habitating doesn't become a bigger thing as costs spiral out of control, cities densify, and eco-footprints are more central to lifestyle.

Here's an article on Co-Own and their model:

Co-Own Company reimagines homeownership for young adults in Denver

The Co-Own video on their website is also helpful in explaining a summary of the concept (it's not on YouTube, but is hosted on the website server. Just go to the homepage):

https://co-ownco.com/

Interesting model for sure.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Same Muta,

I bought a condo about 10 years ago. It's definitely taken a 20% hit on value, but I don't really have a reason to sell. At some point having a back yard would be nice, but there is no way i can afford to pay for that in the inner city and i will never move to the burbs.

My partner and i have been looking at some renovations as we plan on being in here at least another 5 years. that is exciting. Waiting for the interest rates to crush HELOC holders and reno rates drop

Haha sounds like we're in the same situation! Lucky you though, I'm doing it on my own (no significant other), so at least you've got got someone to potentially share costs with. Also great that we're both pragmatic is seeing the potential of our current places with shiny new upgrades.

In general, I just want a townhouse in the long-run, because a) houses are too pricey in general, b) a house would be too much work / upkeep for someone like me on my own, d) a townhouse would allow me to stay inner city and hopefully have a backyard (so I can get a dog), and c) condo fees over $500 a month are a real annoyance; I'd like to lower that as much as I can.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

One initiative that is coming to light is the co-ownership / collective sharing model from Denver-based company Co-Own Co.

Effectively what it is for entry-level home ownership in a residential building that shares commons areas, including living rooms, dining areas, and balconies/outdoor amenities. Instead of paying say $600k for a townhouse or condo, you pay a fraction of that, and have a co-living arrangement with others. This type of model is already in effect for co-living rental spaces. However, this helps address issues with cost, sustainability, and community that is often absence traditional residences.

It's definitely not for everybody - it would be an adjustment of expectations. But the way the world is going, I don't see how co-habitating doesn't become a bigger thing as costs spiral out of control, cities densify, and eco-footprints are more central to lifestyle.

Here's an article on Co-Own and their model:

Co-Own Company reimagines homeownership for young adults in Denver

The Co-Own video on their website is also helpful in explaining a summary of the concept (it's not on YouTube, but is hosted on the website server. Just go to the homepage):

https://co-ownco.com/

Interesting model for sure.

Here’s an article from a while back about one we have in Calgary, and the failed Dragonfly Co-Housing development on the slope in Crescent Heights.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...gary-1.3458665

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Muta

Haha sounds like we're in the same situation! Lucky you though, I'm doing it on my own (no significant other), so at least you've got got someone to potentially share costs with. Also great that we're both pragmatic is seeing the potential of our current places with shiny new upgrades.

In general, I just want a townhouse in the long-run, because a) houses are too pricey in general, b) a house would be too much work / upkeep for someone like me on my own, d) a townhouse would allow me to stay inner city and hopefully have a backyard (so I can get a dog), and c) condo fees over $500 a month are a real annoyance; I'd like to lower that as much as I can.

You mean my partner that is crushed with student loans? nah, she is no help (plus we arent married so keeping these things separate).

Same thoughts on townhome though, and for same reasons. My partner couldn't care less about moving into a home/town home so it works for us.

But you hit the nail on the head with condos and the requirement to keep pace with finishings. I look at some of the new places and what they are selling for an cannot believe it. Less square footage and crappy floor plans; but, they have the newest finishings! (i love seeing highrise condos with modern farm house finishing lol)

[getbak]

A unit in my building was listed just before the New Year and sold in less than a week at asking price. So, there is some life in the condo market.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

The house we looked at over the weekend just sold for a hundred thousand over asking. People are doing crazy things right now.

Was the ask price realistic though? Ie, did it look like a deal at the list price and have wording in the listing such as (reviewing offers at XPM on X Day), etc.

I'm noticing that given the low inventory and strong demand that realtors are pricing good properties below intrinsic value to try to kick off bidding wars to drive offers that are free of conditions. On the surface it might look like people are paying $100,000 premiums but in reality it's something closer to (But still at a modest premium) what it would go for if priced more traditionally.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

BTW, when we're talking condos, do we mean the buildings that are like apartments where everybody walks into a main entrance and then scampers off to their individual unit (kind of like a hotel)? Or are the attached buildings with their own individual entrances from outside directly into the owners' units also considered condos in this conversation? Have both types of properties lost value over the past 10 years?

I think many are using condo as a term for properties that have condo fees or monthly management fees.

[peter12]

#### me, I just googled Calgary homes for the price that we paid for our Vancouver condo. You can get some nice nice stuff in the inner city burbs for much less than we just paid. Sweet lord.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Calgarians don't care for that

People with children don’t care for that. Or rather they prefer a detached house, and few can afford both. And that’s true of people starting families in Toronto and Vancouver as well, who are flooding into suburbs and bedroom communities.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

One initiative that is coming to light is the co-ownership / collective sharing model from Denver-based company Co-Own Co.

Effectively what it is for entry-level home ownership in a residential building that shares commons areas, including living rooms, dining areas, and balconies/outdoor amenities. Instead of paying say $600k for a townhouse or condo, you pay a fraction of that, and have a co-living arrangement with others. This type of model is already in effect for co-living rental spaces. However, this helps address issues with cost, sustainability, and community that is often absence traditional residences.

It's definitely not for everybody - it would be an adjustment of expectations. But the way the world is going, I don't see how co-habitating doesn't become a bigger thing as costs spiral out of control, cities densify, and eco-footprints are more central to lifestyle.

Here's an article on Co-Own and their model:

Co-Own Company reimagines homeownership for young adults in Denver

The Co-Own video on their website is also helpful in explaining a summary of the concept (it's not on YouTube, but is hosted on the website server. Just go to the homepage):

https://co-ownco.com/

Interesting model for sure.

That model makes a lot of sense in places were rent and condo prices are through the roof. It's basically buying shares into a commercial rental building. There are a lot more restrictions than typical condo ownership, but it's much cheaper. It's a huge thing in NYC and kind of a thing in Vancouver.

I don't really see it catching on in Calgary though. You can buy a decent sized strata property for sub $300k. If you think a condo board is bad, you should see how controlling these co-op boards are.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by blankall

I don't really see it catching on in Calgary though. You can buy a decent sized strata property for sub $300k. If you think a condo board is bad, you should see how controlling these co-op boards are.

But would that really be a barrier to entry for young people, particularly? Given today's real estate climate and only the wealthy being able to enter this game right now, this option would give people just starting out home ownership at an affordable price, and a fun social aspect to it as well. I'd wager to say it could be successful depending on the location and the quality of the development.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cappy

You mean my partner that is crushed with student loans? nah, she is no help (plus we arent married so keeping these things separate).

Same thoughts on townhome though, and for same reasons. My partner couldn't care less about moving into a home/town home so it works for us.

But you hit the nail on the head with condos and the requirement to keep pace with finishings. I look at some of the new places and what they are selling for an cannot believe it. Less square footage and crappy floor plans; but, they have the newest finishings! (i love seeing highrise condos with modern farm house finishing lol)

Finishing are a major trap with condos. Basically, the equivalent of buying a new luxury car. Finishings are like furniture, they go out of style and get damaged over time. IMO you are much better off setting up your place so that you can easily remove and replace finishings with medium quality pre-fab stuff.

If it's a rental, Ikea has some perfect solutions for that. A new set of counters and bathroom vanities will go a long way towards making a rental look updated. If you have the unit set up for mix and match furnishings, you can replace those items for a few thousand dollars max. The same can be done with flooring now too. If you have the proper flooring foundation, you can switch out the flooring like Lego pieces for relatively cheap.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Muta

But would that really be a barrier to entry for young people, particularly? Given today's prices, this would give them home ownership at an affordable price, and a fun social aspect to it as well. I'd wager to say it could be successful depending on the location and the quality of the development.

A fun party co-op? All the co-ops I've seen are the exact opposite. People who've been there the longest have the most sway on the co-op boards. They tend to be curmudgeony slightly older people who will cause a massive fuss if any kind of noise disturbs their pomeranian. Many will go as far as to exclude single and young people from their ownership.

The only place you'll find a good social scene for young people within a building is in a building where the landlord just doesn't care.

Co-ops aren't really ownership either. Typically the model is that you buy the share, and then pay upkeep costs. You're basically paying a reduced rent. You sell the share when you leave (if you can), but profits on that share aren't going to be huge. Most strictly prohibit any kind of rentals.