American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by dino7c

exactly

You skipped over the part where nonwhite working class men now support Trump at parity with Biden.

In democracies today (not just the U.S.), the political divide is widening between men and women, and between working class voters and those with higher education. Parties of the populist right have working-class men in the bag, while parties of the left have a lock on women with degrees.

Chalking Trump’s popularity up to white nationalism ignores the broader global trends at play.

Trust in Trump by country*:

Germany 13 per cent
Canada 28
S Korea 46
Poland 51
Nigeria 58
Kenya 65
Philippines 77


* Data is from 2020

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You skipped over the part where nonwhite working class men now support Trump at parity with Biden.

In democracies today (not just the U.S.), the political divide is widening between men and women, and between working class voters and those with higher education. Parties of the populist right have working-class men in the bag, while parties of the left have a lock on women with degrees.

Chalking Trump’s popularity up to white nationalism ignores the broader global trends at play.

Trust in Trump by country*:

Germany 13 per cent
Canada 28
S Korea 46
Poland 51
Nigeria 58
Kenya 65
Philippines 77


* Data is from 2020

Less education means more gullible

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Less education means more gullible

Since when did college degrees be the be all end all measurement of everything? It's become extremely elitist.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Since when did college degrees be the be all end all measurement of everything? It's become extremely elitist.

Calm down

populist right have working-class men in the bag

I don't reckon too many working-class men had degrees

the left have a lock on women with degrees

Errrmm he says degrees.

Germany 13 per cent
Canada 28
S Korea 46
Poland 51
Nigeria 58
Kenya 65
Philippines 77

I might be wrong, in fact it is very possible I am wrong, but I suspect as you go down the list from Germany to Philippines the number of University degrees as a percentage of society decreases.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Less education means more gullible

Sure. But they also notice when educated professionals jeer at their lifestyle and values with contempt. People don’t respond well to being called idiots, bigots, etc. Clinton’s “deplorables” comment was one of the worst own-goals in modern political history.

You might want to give this a listen.

How the Democrats Lost the Working Class
https://www.persuasion.community/p/teixeira

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Since when did college degrees be the be all end all measurement of everything? It's become extremely elitist.

Not to mention terrible politics. University-educated 25-50 year olds make up a far smaller share of the electorate than a lot of people in that demographic seem to imagine.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sure. But they also notice when educated professionals jeer at their lifestyle and values with contempt. People don’t respond well to being called idiots, bigots, etc. Clinton’s “deplorables” comment was one of the worst own-goals in modern political history.

Hillary Clinton didn't call all Trump supporters deplorables. In fact, she very explicitly said exactly the opposite: that many of them were decent Americans who felt the system had failed them. Here's her full quote:

You could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.

But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

Nowhere in that quote does Clinton "jeer at their lifestyle" or "call them idiots". One could maybe quibble that saying exactly half of Trump supporters belong to Basket A and the other half to Basket B is possibly inaccurate when it might actually be 60-40 or 25-75 or whatever other ratio, but other than that everything she said is factually accurate. There are genuinely horrible people who support Trump. He did (and still does) amplify their voices and give legitimacy to truly abhorrent views that other Republican candidates would have previously distanced themselves from.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Who would be an example of charismatic? Trudeau (both father and son?). Mulroney? Obama?

For that group, yes.

Generally speaking, Successful, Smart, Articulate, Well Dressed people...

I think maybe it say more about me that that is what I would find charismatic. I think we all probably find charisma in virtues we value. I guess I just struggle to recognize any virtues I respect in Trump.

(I also am very consciously generalizing with your examples attributes, it does shock me to this day how Trudeau jr becomes less articulate by the year, so I do understand how that's not the best example for him, and this is an American Politics chat, so taking it to the Canadian chat there, )

[troutman]

Charisma is the measure of the character’s combined physical attractiveness, persuasiveness, and personal magnetism. A generally non-beautiful character can have a very high charisma due to strong measures of the other two aspects of charisma. It is important to all characters, as it has an effect on dealings with others, principally non-player characters, mercenary hirelings, prospective retainers, and monsters. It absolutely dictates the total number of henchmen a character is able to retain. It affects loyalty of all hirelings and retainers. It is the key to leadership…. [AD&D]

[Dion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1777449204484292648

[photon]

Arizona Supreme Court strikes down Arizona law about abortion making an 1864 law enforceable, making abortions illegal in AZ.

And there's a petition to have AZ on the ballot in November. Too early to call AZ for Biden now?

https://azmirror.com/2024/04/09/abor...s-an-1864-law/

"Justice John R. Lopez IV, writing for the court in a 4-2 split decision, said that a 2022 law allowing abortions up to 15 weeks of gestation depended on the existence of a federal constitutional right to abortion. And since the U.S. Supreme Court eliminated that right in the Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization ruling two years ago, that law can’t overrule one first passed in 1864, when Arizona was a territory."

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by photon

Arizona Supreme Court strikes down Arizona law about abortion making an 1864 law enforceable, making abortions illegal in AZ.

And there's a petition to have AZ on the ballot in November. Too early to call AZ for Biden now?

https://azmirror.com/2024/04/09/abor...s-an-1864-law/

"Justice John R. Lopez IV, writing for the court in a 4-2 split decision, said that a 2022 law allowing abortions up to 15 weeks of gestation depended on the existence of a federal constitutional right to abortion. And since the U.S. Supreme Court eliminated that right in the Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization ruling two years ago, that law can’t overrule one first passed in 1864, when Arizona was a territory."

This is an important swing state! The more they sewer themselves the better lol

[MoneyGuy]

That pretty much assures a Dem win in Arizona.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Hillary Clinton didn't call all Trump supporters deplorables. In fact, she very explicitly said exactly the opposite: that many of them were decent Americans who felt the system had failed them. Here's her full quote:



Nowhere in that quote does Clinton "jeer at their lifestyle" or "call them idiots". One could maybe quibble that saying exactly half of Trump supporters belong to Basket A and the other half to Basket B is possibly inaccurate when it might actually be 60-40 or 25-75 or whatever other ratio, but other than that everything she said is factually accurate. There are genuinely horrible people who support Trump. He did (and still does) amplify their voices and give legitimacy to truly abhorrent views that other Republican candidates would have previously distanced themselves from.

'Half' was an incredibly stupid thing to say. To suggest it's 'quibbling' based on % is nonsense. Had she said there is a small percentage, it would gave been aan understatement, but probably wouldn't have sunk her. Half was simply dumb.

I don't understand Americans in general. They vote by party line for everything. Extended family down here didn't vote for a couple positions on ballet last time because they didnt know which one was the republican. I believe that was for animal control officer. As though the dog catchers political leaning is important.

Normally I expect the deplorables don't vote. (And the actual number might be 20% of Republicans). So as Trump gives them voice, they will vote and it may be enough to turn the tide again, when added to the 40% overall that will always vote republican. My trust is in the women of America, who will overwhelmingly support Democrat and win this election on their own. Otherwise we are sliding toward a Gilead.

[PsYcNeT]

I mean the fact that general rubes get to vote on Public Servants, Law Officers and Judges is in itself alarmingly stupid.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Apparently, elected representatives were speaking in (biblical) tongues on the floor of the Arizona legislature before the decision.

Yikes.

[direwolf]

My faith in the American electorate is at an all-time low these days, but if anything can get Democrat supporters off their asses and into the voting booth in November, it’ll be women’s rights and the overturning of Roe.

Man, what a shameful and embarrassing country. What’s happening down there right now is just so incredibly sad and terrifying.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Hillary Clinton didn't call all Trump supporters deplorables. In fact, she very explicitly said exactly the opposite: that many of them were decent Americans who felt the system had failed them. Here's her full quote:



Nowhere in that quote does Clinton "jeer at their lifestyle" or "call them idiots". One could maybe quibble that saying exactly half of Trump supporters belong to Basket A and the other half to Basket B is possibly inaccurate when it might actually be 60-40 or 25-75 or whatever other ratio, but other than that everything she said is factually accurate. There are genuinely horrible people who support Trump. He did (and still does) amplify their voices and give legitimacy to truly abhorrent views that other Republican candidates would have previously distanced themselves from.

LOL. Hilary was completely wrong. It wasn't a half a basket of deplorables. It was 99.9%. effing deplorables.

[CliffFletcher]

Hard to take the handwringing here over America not being a real democracy seriously when the same people express contempt for the average voter.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Not to mention terrible politics. University-educated 25-50 year olds make up a far smaller share of the electorate than a lot of people in that demographic seem to imagine.

"Yes, your political views are evidence-based, but have you thought about better aligning yourself with people who believe the COVID vaccine is being used in conjunction with 5G towers to depopulate the planet?"