Brad Treliving needs to go

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Locke

Kadri is a player that I'm not super keen on normally, but goddamn would he have solved a lot of this team's problems.

No idea why he kyboshed Calgary but I mean, if I were in his position and had to choose between Calgary and Colorado at the same time it'd be hard not to pick Colorado.

That being said though, I'm no Treliving booster, but I cant blame him on that one, he had a deal in principle, nothing he can do if a player doesnt waive their NTC.

Calgary was on his NTC list, he wanted to stay in Toronto so he wouldn't waive. Colorado wasn't on his NTC list so he had no choice. At least that is what he said after the fact but it makes sense.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Locke

Kadri is a player that I'm not super keen on normally, but goddamn would he have solved a lot of this team's problems.

No idea why he kyboshed Calgary=.

EDIT: Already said

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Calgary was on his NTC list, he wanted to stay in Toronto so he wouldn't waive. Colorado wasn't on his NTC list so he had no choice. At least that is what he said after the fact but it makes sense.

Thats right! I remember that now.

I'll never forgive him for putting Calgary on his list! He's dead to me!

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If Johnny pulls a Tavares and leaves to go play for his childhood team after saying he wants to stay that is something out of Tre's control. If Gaudreau leaves because BT didn't want to pay him and somebody else does this organization should fire him immediately. The only excuse acceptable is that he was set on leaving and I don't believe that is the case at all..I have a feeling Tre is trying to get him to sign below market value and holding to his guns and the closer we get to UFA, the more likely JG sees what the market is. This extension should have been done already, just pay the guy what he is worth.

My guess is that Guadreau has a list of 2-3-ish teams that he would be interested in and similarly they would be interested in him. Philadelphia being one of them. Calgary definitely is one as well. How many team have the cap space and the need, 1 LW, to back up the truck? It is not as though there are going to be 25 teams chasing him. Not all of them can.

People like to say Treliving should have traded Guadreau before this NTC kicked in. Maybe they should have, but I don't think it is a simple as that. First of all, is it the Flames preference to extend him and keep him here long term? Do they believe Gaudreau is interested in that as an option as well? Considering he is still a Flame, I would bet that the answer to both is, yes.

Look, entering this offseason was a calculated risk. Pretty sure everyone in the Flames organization from Edwards on down knows what is at stake. Where they are right now isn't a surprise to anyone, nor am I seeing signs of panic. Evidently, this is a risk they are willing to take. Do they know if Gaudreau will sign a deal? probably not. Are they confident that he will? Yeah, probably to a certain extent. I think they think they have as good or better a shot as anyone.

Really, the Flames hold the trump card as far as money goes. They have probably budgeted a certain amount and have probably communicated that to JG. If there was considerable push back from JG, they probably would have dealt him before the season started. There is no way the Flames haven't expressed their plans to JG and his team. The Flames also have the 8th year that no other team can offer. The things that might cause Gaudreau to leave are out of their hands. Does he and his wife want to be closer to home? Are they concerned about the pandemic and the difference between how the American and Canadian governments are handling it? Those are the things that might trump money and term.

[dammage79]

Well, Johnny has a 5 team trade to list.

I just feel like he's gonna walk and the Flames do nothing to recuperate any assets before hand.

I'd be shocked if he actually signs in CGY at this point.

Anyhoops, let's wait and see how this plays out until the TDL.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Well, Johnny has a 5 team trade to list.

I just feel like he's gonna walk and the Flames do nothing to recuperate any assets before hand.

I'd be shocked if he actually signs in CGY at this point.

Anyhoops, let's wait and see how this plays out until the TDL.

Him walking wouldn't be terrible if it finally dragged this organization into a proper re-build. BT would still have to be canned for losing the player for nothing but long-term it wouldn't be bad if it caused a proper re-build.

The question is - would it?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Well, Johnny has a 5 team trade to list.

I just feel like he's gonna walk and the Flames do nothing to recuperate any assets before hand.

I'd be shocked if he actually signs in CGY at this point.

Anyhoops, let's wait and see how this plays out until the TDL.

Why would you be ‘shocked’? Gaudreau himself has said on a number of occasions he would like to stay. I think it’s better than 50/50 he stays. If it was all but assured he was going to leave, do you really believe the Flames wouldn’t have moved him by now? What would you have done and why do you think the Flames would behave any different?

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Him walking wouldn't be terrible if it finally dragged this organization into a proper re-build. BT would still have to be canned for losing the player for nothing but long-term it wouldn't be bad if it caused a proper re-build.

The question is - would it?

Given how poorly the Flames draft in the 20's....they're already at a point where they'd trade him for nothing.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Fooled?

Not sure you can say that. I'm sure they knew who Sean Monahan was at all times. But he got hurt, so the part of the game he was good at is gone.

I don’t believe in this for a second. Was he hurt in 2019-20 because that was a pretty dreadful season? Was he hurt against the Avalanche in their 7 game series because that was a downright awful performance? Was he hurt through the entirety of his playoff career because at 5 on 5, he has 3 goals and 1 assist in 30 playoff games. I’m not even sure how your #1 center can have only 1 assist at 5 on 5 in 30 playoff games. Seems unfathomable.

Instead of questioning what the real problem was and analyzing play and patterns, management continued to call the depth in to question by adding expensive complimentary pieces when the problem all along was the core. When you have the winger doing the center’s job, that’s a problem and they didn’t address that problem.

That’s why James Neal failed miserably here in 18-19. They tried to stick him on a line with Gaudreau and Monahan, but that didn’t work because James Neal needed a center who could draw defenders, make plays out of nothing, hold on to pucks, play with pace or slow the play down if need be. Monahan doesn’t do any of these things, it was Gaudreau who did all that work. So in the end, it was Gaudreau essentially playing with 2 James Neals which is not a good recipe for a dynamic line.

I see a lot James Neal in Monahan’s game and I’ve made that comparison before and in my opinion, that’s a big reason why he’s failing right now. It’s not that Monahan can’t play the game of hockey anymore like he use to, he just doesn't have a winger that can drive play and lead a rush which was Monahan’s bread and butter (rush scoring). Without that, he’s kind of lost because he’s never been good at checking either, so where’s his 5 on 5 offense going to come from if he can’t score on the rush or via checking. Hence, the struggles. Treliving and co should’ve seen this or they should’ve found someone who could.

[Torture]

That’s why James Neal failed miserably here in 18-19. They tried to stick him on a line with Gaudreau and Monahan, but that didn’t work because James Neal needed a center who could draw defenders, make plays out of nothing, hold on to pucks, play with pace or slow the play down if need be. Monahan doesn’t do any of these things, it was Gaudreau who did all that work. So in the end, it was Gaudreau essentially playing with 2 James Neals which is not a good recipe for a dynamic line.

We can debate whether Monahan was a complete player or #1 center but James Neal failed miserably for a hell of a lot more reasons than Monahan.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Him walking wouldn't be terrible if it finally dragged this organization into a proper re-build. BT would still have to be canned for losing the player for nothing but long-term it wouldn't be bad if it caused a proper re-build.

The question is - would it?

Doubt it. He’d be replaced by UFA’s.

We were on track for a “proper re-build” and then started trading away picks for depth players so it just doesn’t seem like it’s in the cards for this franchise.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I honestly think the jury on Treliving is on his belief that he had a core to build around.

Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Lindholm.
Giordano, Hanifin, Brodie/Tanev

Gaudreau and Tkachuk are bouncing back, and Lindholm is a #1 center not a 2 in my mind.

Monahan's fall, injury related or not, is the single biggest issue with the way the team in constructed.

If you think that's his fault, I'm fine with that as it's a bet that didn't pay off. Personally I didn't see Monahan's injuries/fall coming so I felt they had two centers and two elite wingers and a decent foundation.

But it didn't work, and it's a results business, so if they move on I'm fine with that.

However personally I'm a little hesitant to get out the pitchforks for a guy that was making the same assumption that I (and many) made.

Monahan was a weak link before his recent injuries. The Monahan-Gaudreau pairing got caved in again and again in the playoffs. By relying on Monahan after his deficiencies were evident, Treliving was hoping that either he would become something he never was (a play-driving two-way centre), or that he could shield Monahan be bringing in more forward depth. The first was wishful thinking: Treliving failed on the second.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Monahan was a weak link before his recent injuries. The Monahan-Gaudreau pairing got caved in again and again in the playoffs. By relying on Monahan after his deficiencies were evident, Treliving was hoping that either he would become something he never was (a play-driving two-way centre), or that he could shield Monahan be bringing in more forward depth. The first was wishful thinking: Treliving failed on the second.

Not sure I agree.

Found a source that has surgeries and wrist issues going back to 2016-17

While his first couple seasons with the Flames were quite good, after he signed his big contract, the injury issues through the season began to emerge. Following the 2016-17 season in which he put up a team leading 27 goals, it emerged that Monahan needed wrist surgery. This was described as a minor surgery, but kept him out of the World Championships that season. The surgery was apparently successful at the time.

2017-18 season

At the end of the season, Monahan then disclosed that he underwent four surgeries: two hernia surgeries, a groin surgery, and another wrist surgery.

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/05/13/b...ough-injuries/

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Torture

We can debate whether Monahan was a complete player or #1 center but James Neal failed miserably for a hell of a lot more reasons than Monahan.

Well it was likely the biggest reason why he failed here because it was either the top line or bottom 6 for him because he wasn’t going to play a shut down role with Backlund. Had management known their players a little bit better though, they probably wouldn’t have looked Neal’s way as he clearly was not the type of winger they needed.

That’s probably why Lindholm worked so well initially with the Monahan-Gaudreau duo, he was the polar opposite of James Neal. He checked so well, could retrieve pucks and was always in the right position. Kind of makes me wonder where they actually had him slotted when they acquired him, maybe 3rd line center or Backlund’s right wing I wonder.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure I agree.

Found a source that has surgeries and wrist issues going back to 2016-17



2017-18 season



https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/05/13/b...ough-injuries/

Didn’t Monahan also have by far his greatest season following all these surgeries?

Like, I know the surgeries would explain a lot. But it just seems like a very convenient excuse. “Why can’t he score? Oh because his shot is done.” It’s not like Monahan was a prolific goal scorer in juniors. He was just average. To me, his shot was always just average. Toffoli was the real sniper between the two in Ottawa and even he’s only hit the 30 goal mark once.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well it was likely the biggest reason why he failed here because it was either the top line or bottom 6 for him because he wasn’t going to play a shut down role with Backlund. Had management known their players a little bit better though, they probably wouldn’t have looked Neal’s way as he clearly was not the type of winger they needed.

That’s probably why Lindholm worked so well initially with the Monahan-Gaudreau duo, he was the polar opposite of James Neal. He checked so well, could retrieve pucks and was always in the right position. Kind of makes me wonder where they actually had him slotted when they acquired him, maybe 3rd line center or Backlund’s right wing I wonder.

My theory is he was to be the 2C and Backlund was going to move down a level. And the reason he was going to be 2C was they’d lost faith that Bennett would be a 1C, as they planned when they drafted him. I think the initial plan was likely Bennett - Monahan - Backlund - whoever. Then Monahan - Lindholm - Backlund - whoever (with Bennett on a wing). But Neal’s failure and Lindholm’s success on RW changed all that.

[chubeyr1]

Should Treliving be fired?

Based off his UFA signings yes.

Some trades leave a nasty taste in your mouth too.

His best trade was Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox, for Lindholm and Hanifin.
We did not give up nothing in that trade. Hamilton was a Norris trophy finalist, Fox became a Norris trophy winner, and Ferland despite concussions was a helluva player too. We lost that trade in many ways. Carolina lost more. I understand Fox not wanting to sign here. I forgive the gm for that though.

We lost that trade, Carolina did too.

Hamonic trade?

Brouwer, Neal, Coleman, Zadarov, Pitlick. We traded picks for Zadorov and Pitlick.

Treliving is not the worst GM out there. I love our teams drafting the past years. Just wish we had more picks.

Treliving is not the worst GM out there. Yet he is not the best either.
We could do better. Or worse. Like coaching. Hire rookie coaches and they make mistakes, hire rookie gms and they make mistakes.

Has Treliving learned? I hate that Coleman contract. Johnny Gaudreau is still not signed. Tkachuk qualifying offer is just stupid.

Lot of people are right maybe it is time for Treliving to go. Then again lets see how this plays out.

[ComixZone]

I wonder if Joe Nieuwendyk is someone the organization would circle back to if Treliving and Gaudreau do both exit this summer.

He was interviewed back in 2013 (source) by the looks of it. If the Flames were worried about “selling” a rebuild to the fans, a fan favourite could make some sense?

[Jiri Hrdina]

What’s he doing now?

[PuckSlap]

We need someone that has zero excuses and is willing to admit they’ve made mistakes. But will correct them


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