Mary Simon appointed Governer General

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I’ve listed some of the tangible costs of rewriting our constitution to become a republic, which are sizeable. Go ahead and list the benefits.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’ve listed some of the tangible costs of rewriting our constitution to become a republic, which are sizeable. Go ahead and list the benefits.

We wont need a middleman anymore to check with a 100 year old lady who lives across the ocean if laws cooked up and passed by our own soverign government are okay?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’ve listed some of the tangible costs of rewriting our constitution to become a republic, which are sizeable. Go ahead and list the benefits.

The cost savings alone should be reason enough.

The cost (different numbers from different sources) float around $50 million a year for the GG and then what LG's around $1 million a year.

Now, I don't know how long Canada decides to stay in business but over 20-30 years that's a lot of cake.

While I completely agree with you that this would be costly it is something that I feel should happen or at the very least be discussed. I get that I am a simple man that doesn't have a big interest in politics, but beyond ceremony what does the role of GG or LG bring to the table?

As a Canadian Immigrant and Canadian Veteran I'd be exceptionally happy to see this country separate themselves from the Crown.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The cost savings alone should be reason enough.

The cost (different numbers from different sources) float around $50 million a year for the GG and then what LG's around $1 million a year.

Now, I don't know how long Canada decides to stay in business but over 20-30 years that's a lot of cake.

Canada would presumably still have a head of state, like Germany, France, and most other republics do (the U.S. is an anomaly here). This new role of president, or whatever we called it, would still cost money to run - residences, travel, staff, security, etc. I wouldn’t expect it to be any cheaper than the GG.

[Monahammer]

IMO the right time will be when QE2 finally bids adieu to the world. At that point we should have a serious discussion over the continued relevance/imagery of a Monarchial structure extending to a now very separate nation.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

IMO the right time will be when QE2 finally bids adieu to the world. At that point we should have a serious discussion over the continued relevance/imagery of a Monarchial structure extending to a now very separate nation.

If that's the plan, you want it done before, not after. Once she dies, it sets off a whole chain of expensive re-naming and branding.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If that's the plan, you want it done before, not after. Once she dies, it sets off a whole chain of expensive re-naming and branding.

Not to mention, if you oppose the idea of the monarchy, who cares if she is alive or dead when you do it? She doesn't deserve that level of respect to worry you might offend her by actioning it now while she is alive.

My post borderlines creepy if it is interpreted incorrectly, so to make it clear- I wish no ill will on the royals, I hope she lives to 200, as I would hope for any stranger I don't know- but she doesn't deserve anymore respect from the people of Canada than any other random human being on this earth. Perhaps less respect given what she represents.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by stone hands

We wont need a middleman anymore to check with a 100 year old lady who lives across the ocean if laws cooked up and passed by our own soverign government are okay?

This isn’t 1904.

Also, sovereign.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The cost savings alone should be reason enough.

The cost (different numbers from different sources) float around $50 million a year for the GG and then what LG's around $1 million a year.

Now, I don't know how long Canada decides to stay in business but over 20-30 years that's a lot of cake.

While I completely agree with you that this would be costly it is something that I feel should happen or at the very least be discussed. I get that I am a simple man that doesn't have a big interest in politics, but beyond ceremony what does the role of GG or LG bring to the table?

As a Canadian Immigrant and Canadian Veteran I'd be exceptionally happy to see this country separate themselves from the Crown.

$50M is chump change. How much is the security detail along for POTUS?

[Mull]

Originally Posted by peter12

$50M is chump change. How much is the security detail along for POTUS?

The American point isn't an argument though unless you are saying the only alternate set-up is to have a POTUS like person in lieu of the GG.... which isn't correct.

$50m is $50 Million. If a budget item is deemed wasteful it should be looked at independently for its value, not as what % of a budget it incurs. So perhaps you're saying $50M is chump change compared to the cost Canada could incur by changing? That would be a fair point if legit in my eyes.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Mull

The American point isn't an argument though unless you are saying the only alternate set-up is to have a POTUS like person in lieu of the GG.... which isn't correct.

$50m is $50 Million. If a budget item is deemed wasteful it should be looked at independently for its value, not as what % of a budget it incurs. So perhaps you're saying $50M is chump change compared to the cost Canada could incur by changing? That would be a fair point if legit in my eyes.

$50M in an economy like Canada is nothing. It pales in comparison to the cost of running Parliament.

Republic or constitutional monarchy - we get a head of state either way. At least ours is based on a set of norms that are fundamentally sound and blessedly apolitical.

[peter12]

I am actually amazed any Canadian would want a republic after witnessing the Trump fiasco. You do not want the head of state personified in a figure that wields god-king powers with half the electorate.

If you think we can avoid that in this age of tribal partisanship, well you are far more optimistic than I am.

You want a 100 year old lady who sits quietly in her castle and comes out every now and then to wave at a crowd.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by peter12

$50M in an economy like Canada is nothing. It pales in comparison to the cost of running Parliament.

Republic or constitutional monarchy - we get a head of state either way. At least ours is based on a set of norms that are fundamentally sound and blessedly apolitical.

You kind of chose to ignore my point about the cost and repeated your own point.

I am not a government scholar. But why do we need either?

I proposed our current set-up but replace the GG with a committee/supreme court. Hell, give the actual GG duties that impact governance to the senate - ensure one PM doesn't appoint the single person who makes critical rulings. I can't believe I am advocating this next part- but keep the senate appointed unelected in this case. Helps removes the crap that occurs down south.

Why do we need a president or crown?

[peter12]

The biggest reason for the GG is to ensure smooth transition of power between governments. For that alone, the institution is priceless.

To have an institution so far removed from practical politics, but one that normatively (and subsequently) enjoys a great deal of trust as to its impartiality is imperative in a democracy like Canada where the executive function is not separate from the legislature. That is, our Prime Minister is selected from the ranks of the House of Commons.

In the US, the President is hypothetically supposed to balance the powers between the legislative and judicial branches, but enjoys so much popular support in his single person that Presidents can break that balance by challenging norms that were previously unassailable - ie. the veto.

The point is, democracies usually need someone like a referee to make things fair, smooth, and non-violent. As Cliff said, an unengaged, almost useless Crown has been the best choice for almost every single functioning democracy.

[PeteMoss]

Isn't your proposal just the exact same end result but in a different format?

The head of state being apolitical avoids situations like what just happened in the US where a corrupt political party can alter the rules or just ignore it to declare themselves the winner.

[peter12]

In short, keep GG, toss UCB.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Isn't your proposal just the exact same end result but in a different format?

The head of state being apolitical avoids situations like what just happened in the US where a corrupt political party can alter the rules or just ignore it to declare themselves the winner.

Right, but our system is based in centuries of effective functioning. Most theorists conveniently choose to ignore the importance of culture when really that is most of what good politics is.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by stone hands

We wont need a middleman anymore to check with a 100 year old lady who lives across the ocean if laws cooked up and passed by our own soverign government are okay?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Trudeau Sr did away with that in 1982?The GG actually gives the ascent to bills, and not the Crown in London.

[PeteMoss]

The monarchy is one of things that seems stupid - why is our head of state some queen in a different country - but the elimination of it is very difficult to get right and the benefits to doing it are very small.

[peter12]

As to the appointment of the GG - Harper did it right and Trudeau did it wrong (the first time).

The best GG is someone kind of scholarly, but not overly so, who enjoys the almost endless ceremonial aspect of the job but is canny enough to get why the institution exists and why it must be used properly.

Paquette really did think she was some kind of god-king - inserting her own takes on policy into speeches, going off script on diplomatic missions etc…