Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[Ozy_Flame]

I can't answer that question for you. This is a subjective art, and you have to decide what you like.

Personally I will tune in for Swerve/Okada/Ospreay matches, Joe's promos, Edge and Christian promos, and Julia Hart's meteoric rise. And any time Danielson or Omega are on TV I am glued.

I can tell you nothing on WWE makes me tune in at the moment, for reasons I've already mentioned. I might watch a Chad Gable or Gunther match if someone tells me it's good, or if one of the Uso brothers wins the WWE Title (I don't know which one is hot right now), then I would watch that moment.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Does it bother you that I don't enjoy WWEs product at the moment?

It's just not for everyone. And I explained already why I like AEW. I've also explained why ratings are a dumb measure to true wrestling fans. I also think you're being wholly unfair to Okada and Mone, who just arrived. Give them at least a cup of coffee, Christ Almighty.

Why do you insist on continuing creating a tribalism narrative?

It's weird.

I don't at all.

If you're watching week to week for that AEW / NJPW style of match you're not going to like WWE product and that's fine. I have no issue with that.

I mention the tribalism thing becasue everytime some posts a criticism of AEW you run in to defend them, and tell us we shouldn't watch the product, or should t worry about attendance, or shouldn't worry about ratings.

Which is just part of the discussion of Wrestling for the last 30 years, people have discussed attendance and TV ratings going back to the start of the Monday Night Wars. . AEW themselves seemed to love talking about attendance when they were close to 1M viewers, had great ratings in the demo, and were selling out big stadiums and Wembley.

At this point I think it's fair to question AEW strategy a bit...the in ring product is still great, don't think anybody questions that, but the marketing, booking, and story telling is lacking at times and even not as good as it was in their first couple years and during the pandemic.

For Okada specifically you had a guy that should have been hot shotted into the main event scene and treated as the final boss of AEW...instead he's been shoehorned into this horrible storyline with the Bucks with a flat debut.

Mone was given more of that star treatment, and probably unfair criticism there, but think they needed to get her into the ring sooner. He promos and commentary appearances have fallen flat so far. But much less of an issue than Okada's debut has been.

They've done a good job with Ospreay because really they've focused on his in ring strengths.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

No, iron Maiden brough up Joe and Copeland's age as problematic.

That you two seemed to get defensive and completely melt down is both not surprising and very uninspired. Oh well.

"NUH UH YOU'RE THE MAD ONE!"



You made a post with no context, just listing wrestler's ages. My bad for not going back and trying to suss out what its about.


For the record, Iron Maiden was wrong about that. Wrestlers being in healthier shape and not ravaged by drug abuse while on the road has extended careers by a good 10 - 15 years, and they already regularly went to their late 40s before this.

The only guy whose age really showed was Sting, but even he knew to stick to tag matches that kept him protected. Rock's age/shape is probably going to show if he tries to do a singles match here.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

"NUH UH YOU'RE THE MAD ONE!"

What?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I mention the tribalism thing becasue everytime some posts a criticism of AEW you run in to defend them, and tell us we shouldn't watch the product, or should t worry about attendance, or shouldn't worry about ratings.

But I don't defend them on everything. I have laid out changes and criticism before. You just either are not reading them or choosing to ignore them to defend your tribalism angle.

I have also laid out why I don't like WWE. It's the same guys in the top spot they had a decade ago.

And I don't even know why it's WWE vs. AEW, that's the real tribalist look at the wrestling community. I've been to far more NJPW and AJPW shows than I have AEW ones, I love TNA and GCW, and know the history quite well on puroresu, as well as Stampede Wrestling (Cap might know better of course).

NJPW is probably my favorite promotion, especially between WK10 and WK16.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

What?

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That you two seemed to get defensive and completely melt down is both not surprising and very uninspired. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Does it bother you that I don't enjoy WWEs product at the moment?

No. I think there are still reasons to not be into WWE's product if you want a pure wrestling program.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I also think you're being wholly unfair to Okada and Mone, who just arrived. Give them at least a cup of coffee, Christ Almighty.

No one is being "unfair" to Okada. I think everyone in this thread is super aware how good Okada is. I think a majority of us realize he could be an amazing international level star. I think a lot of us hate that the Bucks have tried to attach themselves too him and it is very clearly actively holding Okada back.
I think some of us don't know why they put him on the mid-card belt instead of putting him right to the top of the card
Either way it isn't that any of us doubt Okada. We do question what they're doing with him.
Mercedes had a stunted debut. She'll be fine when she starts wrestling or turns heel. Her face mic work has always been less than.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why do you insist on continuing creating a tribalism narrative?
It's weird.

Because every time we're having a discussion in here about problems at AEW or good things happening with WWE you barge your way in to tell us how we're wrong. You are the only regular contributor to this thread that does this, with a couple guys who turn up here and there doing the same thing for WWE (and its just as annoying)

[Ozy_Flame]

"'Barge' your way in"

- Wrestling fan who complains about contrarian opinions and has to respond to every minute post.

You're awesome, keep being you

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

"'Barge' your way in"

- Wrestling fan who complains about contrarian opinions and has to respond to every minute post.

You're awesome, keep being you

Holy smokes, my dude. Some self-awarewolf #### going on here. No idea why I assumed this conversation was going to go any better with you than last time.
Shame on me for assuming you might have just been having an off day last time. Back on ignore with you.

[Ozy_Flame]

Wrestling fan that melts down and implodes advertises he's going to block.

This is just delicious, I feel like we're on Reddit

[TheIronMaiden]

This is how you know wrestling is good again.

Which Wrestlemania match are you looking forward to this most?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

But I don't defend them on everything. I have laid out changes and criticism before. You just either are not reading them or choosing to ignore them to defend your tribalism angle.

I have also laid out why I don't like WWE. It's the same guys in the top spot they had a decade ago.

And I don't even know why it's WWE vs. AEW, that's the real tribalist look at the wrestling community. I've been to far more NJPW and AJPW shows than I have AEW ones, I love TNA and GCW, and know the history quite well on puroresu, as well as Stampede Wrestling (Cap might know better of course).

NJPW is probably my favorite promotion, especially between WK10 and WK16.

Maybe it is just me then but I feel like every time discussion about AEW gets into Tony Kahn's booking decisions you get really defensive of their product, or tell people not to talk about the ratings or attendance (Which I just find annoying because that's just part of the business, the companies themselves love to talk about it). It honestly just reminds me of how Dino7c defends the Flames at all times.

To me I think my frustration with AEW is that is has the potential to be so much better...honestly with the roster that AEW has with Danielson, Moxley, White, Okada, Swerve, Omega, Ospreay, Hangman etc etc they should be so far beyond WWE's product right now.

And for the most part the in-ring quality is better (although I do think they could tone down the spots week to week and save stuff for the bigger events) nobody debates that.

But really I still just think that as an overall pro-wrestling company they have so much more opportunity if TK would just try to make some tweaks to the formula and try to go back to what made them successful early on. (Trim the roster, book smaller venues, get rid of all the RoH cross-promotion, focus on your elite roster week after week with fewer long gaps between appearances).

Even just 2.5 years ago...I think about how perfect the debuts of Adam Cole and Danielson were handled...and then compare that to how they debuted Okada and even Jay White to an extent...and honestly the way they debuted is night and day. Okada deserved the Danielson debut, they needed to introduce him like the elite star that is industry shaking like they did Danielson.

Danielson instantly looked like a threatening star, Cole seemed like a big acquisition, but they haven't really been able to capture that magic again IMO.

With WWE it's probably the opposite still...the storylines are improving...but the in-ring work can still be better and they need to give matches a bit more time to shine. It's been better whenever Vince isn't around as guys like Gable, Gunther, Ivar, Ricochet, have been able to show more of their in-ring skill in the last year...but still a ton of room for improvement. I'd also agree with you that from a pure "potential star" perspective the AEW roster is way deeper right now and has more potential star power than the WWE, but to me that adds to the frustration. The talent AEW has assembled should easily make it the best pro wrestling product that maybe we've ever seen.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This is how you know wrestling is good again.

Which Wrestlemania match are you looking forward to this most?

Can't beat Savage/Steamboat IMO.

[SuperMatt18]

Here is the WM card.

Bit of an interesting layout in that Night 1 feels like it has more of the "fun" where night 2 has more of the serious stuff.

Night 2 also feels light, so seems like there is either going to be a surprise match or that Reigns / Rhodes match is going to be the overbooked mess with a ton of interference and legends appearing like has been rumoured.


Saturday Night 1 WrestleMania 40 Card

• The Rock & Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes & Seth Rollins
• Women's World Championship: Rhea Ripley (c) vs. Becky Lynch
• Intercontinental Championship: Gunther (c) vs. Sami Zayn
• Jey Uso vs. Jimmy Uso
• Six-Pack ladder match for Undisputed WWE Tag Team Championships: Judgment Day (Damian Priest & Finn Bálor) vs. Awesome Truth (The Miz & R-Truth) vs. DIY (Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa) vs. New Day (Kofi Kingston & Xavier Woods) vs. New Catch Republic (Pete Dunne & Tyler Bate) vs. A-Town Down Under (Austin Theory & Grayson Waller)
• Bianca Belair, Naomi & Jade Cargill vs. Damage CTRL (Dakota Kai, Asuka & Kairi Sane)
• Rey Mysterio & Dragon Lee vs. Santos Escobar & Dominik Mysterio

Sunday Night 2 WrestleMania 40 Card

• Undisputed WWE Universal Championship: Roman Reigns (c) vs. Cody Rhodes
• World Heavyweight Championship: Seth Rollins (c) vs. Drew McIntyre
• WWE Women's Championship: Iyo Sky (c) vs. Bayley
• United States Championship Triple Threat: Logan Paul (c) vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Owens
• LA Knight vs. AJ Styles
• Bobby Lashley & The Street Profits (Montez Ford & Angelo Dawkins) vs. The Final Testament (Karrion Kross & The Authors of Pain (Akam & Rezar)

[trackercowe]

One thing I've been wondering... why doesn't The Rock want to play villains in movies? I can't stand him in basically every movie he's done the last 20 years. One of his best roles was playing the villain in Black Adam, and he's sooooo much better as a heel. He should lean into doing these type of roles, as he plays it perfectly.

Considering post-Rumble the plan was for Rhodes/Rollins, and Rock was going to be the face in a feud with Reigns they've done a fantastic job changing things up. The Rock/Reigns are going to put Rhodes over huge at Mania.

[Ozy_Flame]

The Gunther match might be interesting. Pete Dunne and Tyler Bate would be cool, although their talents are going to get shrouded with that many teams in a single match. The rest isn't anything that moves the needle for me.

Also, there's a team called A-Town Down Under? Is Austin Theory Australian? I didn't know that.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Sunday Night 2 WrestleMania 40 Card

• Undisputed WWE Universal Championship: Roman Reigns (c) vs. Cody Rhodes
• World Heavyweight Championship: Seth Rollins (c) vs. Drew McIntyre
• WWE Women's Championship: Iyo Sky (c) vs. Bayley
• United States Championship Triple Threat: Logan Paul (c) vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Owens
• LA Knight vs. AJ Styles
• Bobby Lashley & The Street Profits (Montez Ford & Angelo Dawkins) vs. The Final Testament (Karrion Kross & The Authors of Pain (Akam & Rezar)

I bet night two is when we'll see appearances by legends (Austin, Cena). Considering Austin is willing to wrestle one more match, Cena is still able to go, and Rock is also "back", I think WWE is going to capitalise on this and try and get the three into gear for some kind of program.

With WWE moving to Netflix I think they are going to bring back some of these heavyweights and push programming hard. With Johnson on the board of directors I think there is an appetite to bring bigger names back into the company.

Also, there's a team called A-Town Down Under? Is Austin Theory Australian? I didn't know that.

Grayson Waller is Australian. He was actually on Survivor Australia, which is where I first caught him.

[SuperMatt18]

Austin coming out to prevent the Rock from costing Rhodes the match is maybe the easiest booking decision ever TBH.

Forget Cena and Taker being part of that match...Austin coming out to confront the Rock is all you need.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Austin coming out to prevent the Rock from costing Rhodes the match is maybe the easiest booking decision ever TBH.

Forget Cena and Taker being part of that match...Austin coming out to confront the Rock is all you need.

How do you book it without making it look "random". Or is their legendary rivalry enough to make it seem normal and welcomed?

Then at Summerslam or Survivor Series they can book Punk/Austin vs. Rock/Reigns. Then next Mania Punk vs. Austin, Rock vs. Reigns.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

How do you book it without making it look "random". Or is their legendary rivalry enough to make it seem normal and welcomed?

Then at Summerslam or Survivor Series they can book Punk/Austin vs. Rock/Reigns. Then next Mania Punk vs. Austin, Rock vs. Reigns.

I think if it's Cena or Taker helping it feels forced and "random".

With Austin / Rock I think their legendary rivalry is enough to make it seem normal and welcomed.

Especially since Austin/Rock's whole angle was based on Austin rebelling against the authority that was McMahon and the Rock abusing their power.

The Rock as the board member that was trying to force his way into WM kind of represents that again. The Rock vs Austin angle is such a natural fit. Austin coming out to prevent his biggest rival and new authority figure from abusing his power to cost Rhodes the title feels natural. Rhodes also appeared on Broken Skull and both guys have talked highly of one another so there is a "relationship" you could speak to.

There is such a natural way to do it too with the probable Bloodline rules stipulation...Jimmy comes out to interfere and Jey comes out and they fight into the back. Then Solo comes out to interfere...and Seth comes out and interferes with him. Then the Rock come out and it's 2 on 1. Rock and Reigns beat on Cody for a bit, using the belt, they make him bleed, but don't actually pin him.

Broken Glass sound hits, Austin comes running out, him and the Rock keep fighting, Austin hits the Rock with a Stunner, Reigns is distracted Cody hits him with multiple Cross-Rhodes and wins the match.

[Ozy_Flame]

Austin/Rock in 2024. Interesting.