Ring Road To Nowhere

[Calgary14]

Will there be sufficient access for large trucks/semis off the SW ring road going to/from the new Costco that opens tomorrow? I noticed they didn't put diesel in their gas station but the Easthills one off the SE ring road has diesel so maybe they're thinking access getting in/out will be limited to regular size vehicles

[Acey]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Is there an official "promised" date for the entire Ring Road completion/opening to the public?

It's not a P3 project so there's no hard date set. There's some nonsense going on around Lower Springbank Road with the relocation of a powerline. The "promise" right now is 2024. The new bridge over the river north of COP and the rebuild out to Old Banff Coach Road all that should be done in 2022.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by GGG

2024 for whole thing
Oct 2021 for SW to Glenmore
Oct 2020 Anderson 146th Ave/Fish Creek Blvd to Glenmore

fyp

[timun]

It's kind of surreal that the stretch through the Tsuut'ina reserve—a bypass around the reservoir that has been argued about for almost half a century—actually exists, and will be open in the next 5-8 weeks. It's going to take me a while for it to 'click' in my mind that that's even an option if I'm going south.

[Old Yeller]

Yeah, I'm curious how much of a drop in volume we'll see on 14th when the Ring Road opens up.

[curves2000]

I haven't been watching or reading much news the last few weeks since I was out of town. Has it been confirmed that the portion near the reserve will indeed open around October as was reported a few months back?

[keratosis]

I believe they have too. Otherwise the land reverts back to Band control.

[timun]

As far as I know the two conditions that could result in the land being returned back to the Tsuut'ina were:

1) the Southwest Ring Road project must be complete by May, 2022, and
2) access to/from the reserve must be provided at Glenmore and 37th Street

[timun]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

Yeah, I'm curious how much of a drop in volume we'll see on 14th when the Ring Road opens up.

I bet very little. Did traffic on Deerfoot drop when Stoney opened? No. The year after the southeast leg of Stoney was completed, completing the bypass around the east side of the city, traffic dropped on Deerfoot between 16th Ave NE and Peigan Trail, but every other segment had an increase. By last year it was back to being as bad as it ever was before Stoney opened.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Acey

It's not a P3 project so there's no hard date set. There's some nonsense going on around Lower Springbank Road with the relocation of a powerline. The "promise" right now is 2024. The new bridge over the river north of COP and the rebuild out to Old Banff Coach Road all that should be done in 2022.

Thank you. Do you have a link to the source of this "promise"?
Also, 2024 is a year. Is a completion month noted anywhere?

As for the P3 reference, to my knowledge AT has hard drop-dead opening dates with each one of the big GC's for the RR sections (EllisDon etc.). Missing those dates carry huge penalties for the GC's. Which makes me think that these completion dates should be public knowledge, no?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Thank you. Do you have a link to the source of this "promise"?

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...oad-completion

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by timun

I bet very little. Did traffic on Deerfoot drop when Stoney opened? No. The year after the southeast leg of Stoney was completed, completing the bypass around the east side of the city, traffic dropped on Deerfoot between 16th Ave NE and Peigan Trail, but every other segment had an increase. By last year it was back to being as bad as it ever was before Stoney opened.

There’s only select routes where Stoney is a viable alternative to Deerfoot IMO.

Whereas I don’t think I’ll ever take 14th again after this opens.

[Old Yeller]

It wouldn't surprise me either way if volume dropped on 14th or if it didn't really at all.

Like Weitz, I may never touch 14th again especially on my regular commute, but I'm not commuting downtown so going slightly West isn't too far out of my way. At the same time there's still a pretty significant population that surrounds 14th and may view the ring road as too far out of their way.

[timun]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

As for the P3 reference, to my knowledge AT has hard drop-dead opening dates with each one of the big GC's for the RR sections (EllisDon etc.). Missing those dates carry huge penalties for the GC's. Which makes me think that these completion dates should be public knowledge, no?

Any completion dates in the contracts would be conditional on not being pushed back because of the actions (or inactions) of other parties.

In the case of the southern segment of the West Ring Road (Hwy 8 to Old Banch Coach Rd) the "schedule" (which is to say, the date the government told us they wanted the road to be done, not the date that was in any contract) was pushed because of Enmax/Alberta Utilities Commission, and the contract to Safelink Partners (Graham, Carmacks, Vinci) wasn't even signed until a couple months ago. They're not going to bear any responsibility for the full opening being pushed back until 2024, that's not on them.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Weitz

There’s only select routes where Stoney is a viable alternative to Deerfoot IMO.

Whereas I don’t think I’ll ever take 14th again after this opens.

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

It wouldn't surprise me either way if volume dropped on 14th or if it didn't really at all.

Like Weitz, I may never touch 14th again especially on my regular commute, but I'm not commuting downtown so going slightly West isn't too far out of my way. At the same time there's still a pretty significant population that surrounds 14th and may view the ring road as too far out of their way.

Precisely, Ol' Yeller: Weitz is right, there are only select routes where Stoney is a viable alternative to Deerfoot. That's the point I'm getting at, really.

The east freeway project was 'sold' to the public on the idea it would be a bypass around Calgary itself, and all that truck traffic was supposed to divert around the city and not bog down the commuters on Deerfoot anymore. Which is fine and dandy, except most of the traffic was commuters in the first place, and their houses and places of work didn't change locations, so it wasn't any more convenient for them to go 5-to-10 km out of their way to Stoney.

And so they didn't, they just kept taking Deerfoot, traffic dropped only marginally, and five years later it was back to where it was in the first place. The SWCRR/WCRR projects are going to have the same effect: traffic might dip on 14th and Macleod a bit, but within a few years they'll be as bad as usual.

I live near Glenmore & 37th, and many of my neighbours expect traffic on 14th to drop precipitously, to their benefit. What I mean by that is they're expecting a drop on 14th, and think it will work in their favour because Glenmore/14th is the route they would prefer to take. I tried explaining, "Don't you see that many people like you will think the same thing, and you'll all replace the traffic that diverts from 14th to the ring road, and traffic will soon be as bad as it was to begin with?" They didn't get it. It's like a textbook example of induced demand, and it mostly flew over their heads.

[CaptainYooh]

I disagree with the "induced demand" theory. Driving from SW (south of Southland) to NW has been atrocious forever. People try avoiding 14th-Glenmore-Crowchild gridlock and choose Deerfoot to get to Northwest and North Central even though it adds 10km to the trip. With new SW communities (Providence, Silverado, Sirocco, Yorkville, Belmont etc.) adding 50,000+ new homes in the next 20-30 years, the SW portion of the RR will provide the much anticipated travel alternative and, in turn, this will actually relieve Deerfoot volumes.

[Acey]

Yeah I dunno. East freeway was sold as a CANAMEX bypass and it continues to function as that. I 100% guarantee SWRR will serve as a better bypass for intra-city trips than Stoney SE as a bypass for Deerfoot, which was never its purpose. Shouldn't be too difficult to prove. The dynamics of the traffic flow are so different than on the east side of the city, there's zero comparisons that can be made.

[CliffFletcher]

The bigger relief on 14th will be if the ####ing construction on the road ever lets up.

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by timun

I live near Glenmore & 37th, and many of my neighbours expect traffic on 14th to drop precipitously, to their benefit. What I mean by that is they're expecting a drop on 14th, and think it will work in their favour because Glenmore/14th is the route they would prefer to take. I tried explaining, "Don't you see that many people like you will think the same thing, and you'll all replace the traffic that diverts from 14th to the ring road, and traffic will soon be as bad as it was to begin with?" They didn't get it. It's like a textbook example of induced demand, and it mostly flew over their heads.

That would really depend on where they're going no? If you're going to Anderson or anywhere south of it, you'd be an idiot to take 14th.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Or any road for that matter. Why do i have to go 70km/h for 3km on Stoney because they are cutting grass way out in the ditch.



You should need a permit for slowing the flow of traffic on major roads and a fine for setting it up incorrectly and another fine for not taking it down when you’re finished your work.

You do need a permit. It's called a Traffic Accommodation Strategy.