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Old 12-15-2019, 06:29 PM   #401
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There are some truly awful takes on Taylor Hall in here and I suspect a large chunk of that is people building up biases during his time in Edmonton in an effort to discredit his offensive upside.

No, heís not winning a Selke any time soon but his offensive upside more than makes up for that. Wouldnít trade Dube for Hall 1 for 1? Give me a break. Thatís the kind of crap other teams fans put in their own ATLís and laugh at.

Hall is elite and saying you wouldnít want him here is nothing short of foolish. Iíve seen a lot more good than bad from Hall in his career.
I wouldnít trade Jankowski for Hall one for one. (Well maybe for *1.) You know why? Because Hall is currently coming off a $6 million dollar contract. Heís going to get $8.5 to maybe high $9 million from someone. Give him a deal in that range and weíre on our way to being Leafs west. Too much cap tied up in offensive style top 6 players and little else to round out the roster.

If Backlund is kept around we need to upgrade #1 or #2 center at some point to put him where heís best suited. At #3. The only current way around that is Lindholm maintaining the #1C and either relying on one of Tkachuk/Gaudreau holding fort at an off wing. Frolikís position will need to be filled, and we arenít certain that prospect youth will be the answer nor consistently reliable on a cup contending team. We need a #4 center and somewhere to relocate Jankowski to. Brodie and Hamonic either need extensions (higher AAV) or UFA replacements (we know how that usually goes). Rittich will get a raise in a couple years. Wildcard is Gioís cap coming off the books giving some room at that time. Does Hall at #2 LW for 8-10 million restrict us in shoring up other areas of need. I think so but weíll see what Treliving can achieve.

*1 Iíd trade Jankowski for Hall one for one with the intention of letting Hall walk at the end of the year.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:35 PM   #402
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It is foolish not to want a constantly injured guy who will be on the sidelines while making 10M a year? On the very low chance he comes here as soon as he signs that big deal when he gets hurt, not if but when I don't want to hear a peep out of the posters wanting him here. I don't want to hear about how we have no cap to add to the team while Hall is injured. Not a bad word whatsoever. Be careful what you wish for.
This is ridiculous. Honestly, you should be embarrassed. You're argument is Hall is destined to get injured throughout the remainder of his career. I guess your crystal ball is better than the rest of us. 10 million a year is another claim you can't substantiate. This is in no way a statement of fact. You don't know what Hall is going to sign for and his decision will likely be made on a number of things, most of which you're not aware of.

Lastly, you should be especially embarrassed about saying things like 'I don't want to hear....' good. Leave.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:36 PM   #403
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For the Hall naysayers, if it's not Hall then who should the Flames target? What better option is there either now or one that you can gaze into your crystal ball and say'thats the guy'?

Even last year when Stone went to Vegas, you could see Hall being available and the Flames having interest, for good reason. The Flames look to have 2-3 years ahead of them where they could step into the leagues elite. If they do nothing, just my opinion, they're a better than average team until Gio's play falls off and they have a Gaudreau leaving situation on their hands. Then they will have run out of time.

Face it, they might not have another opportunity to acquire a player of this caliber for a long while.
Sometimes itís far better to not overpay for UFAs and instead continue to invest in your young core.

Whoís to say the Flames arenít as much of a contender or moreso if Mangiapane, Dube, Bennett and Valimaki take a step forward in the next year vs trading for Hall?

Picking the best target and then acquiring them at any price is a bad way to do business. Hall may make sense, but only for us at certain price points. The Devils may ask for more than would be prudent to trade.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:39 PM   #404
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I don't personally care either way if we get Hall or not, but I must say it is awfully refreshing not having to debate about a Brouwer or Neal type player being added to the team again.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:41 PM   #405
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Who wanted to trade for Hall 2-3 weeks ago? It's not like we are the first team in history to experience the post-coach-change bump.

Imagine adding Hall to the Flames in last year's playoffs. Do they win any more games? Certainly still don't win the series.

Does he do anything to address the fundamental problems that have been so prevalent from the All star break to the day Peters was fired? IMO, no. Giving up assets and cap space to fill the position of least need would be absolutely insane.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:42 PM   #406
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Personally, I think the yokes would be silly to make this trade. The season is going well, why disrupt the team and room to do this.

The only way it would make sense for the totes is if they could sign him for some term.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:43 PM   #407
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Hamonic isnt a high value asset though when he is UFA in 6 months.
Incorrect. Heís a high value asset. Probably worth a 1st+ At the deadline if Treliving wanted to deal him
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:46 PM   #408
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Sometimes itís far better to not overpay for UFAs and instead continue to invest in your young core.

Whoís to say the Flames arenít as much of a contender or moreso if Mangiapane, Dube, Bennett and Valimaki take a step forward in the next year vs trading for Hall?

Picking the best target and then acquiring them at any price is a bad way to do business. Hall may make sense, but only for us at certain price points. The Devils may ask for more than would be prudent to trade.
Hard to say overpay when you don't know what the price is.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:46 PM   #409
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dissentowner with a real meltdown in this thread. You doing okay? Your viewpoint on Hall is extremely questionable.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:47 PM   #410
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Hard to say overpay when you don't know what the price is.
Thus my last two sentences.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:48 PM   #411
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Bennett + Kylington + 2nd (becomes 1st if he extends) is close IMO. Because we take a LS LW our in Bennett we literally stay basically the same. If we swap Valimaki for Kylington then the pick is not conditional it just stays a 2nd. To me it’s a worthy price to pay for an high end talent that instantly makes us harder to defend both 5 on 5 and while on the man advantage.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Backlund
Hall - Lindholm - Tkachuk

Or

Hall - Monahan - Gaudreau
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm

Or

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Hall - Backlund - Lindholm

People who are saying Hall doesn’t fit into our top 6 are blind; he bolster the top 6 and the PP in a big big way.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:51 PM   #412
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nm
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:53 PM   #413
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Bennett + Kylington + 2nd (becomes 1st if he extends) is close IMO. Because we take a LS LW our in Bennett we literally stay basically the same. If we swap Valimaki for Kylington then the pick is not conditional it just stays a 2nd. To me itís a worthy price to pay for an high end talent that instantly makes us harder to defend both 5 on 5 and while on the man advantage.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Backlund
Hall - Lindholm - Tkachuk

Or

Hall - Monahan - Gaudreau
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm

Or

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Hall - Backlund - Lindholm

People who are saying Hall doesnít fit into our top 6 are blind; he bolster the top 6 and the PP in a big big way.


I donít think youíll see much in the way of subtracting players from the active roster. Itís just not how these deals usually go down. Itís usually futures and perhaps a contract of some question and a prospect. The team is gearing up to compete by adding to their active roster without subtracting much.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:53 PM   #414
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Thus my last two sentences.
Fair.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:56 PM   #415
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Iíd take Palmieri on the flames over Hall.

Plays on the right side, has a great shot and is physical. Get him from the devils for a fraction of the cost of Hall.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:56 PM   #416
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Hall is a youngish almost point per game player - those are rare. He has only played on bad NHL teams, has a strong desire to win a cup, and is from Calgary. We should go hard after him and pay him the $9M for the next 7 years. Here's who we trade:
- Kylington
- Bennett
- Frolik (who will turn into a draft pick for the Devils at the deadline).
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:59 PM   #417
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Hall is a youngish almost point per game player - those are rare. He has only played on bad NHL teams, has a strong desire to win a cup, and is from Calgary. We should go hard after him and pay him the $9M for the next 7 years. Here's who we trade:
- Kylington
- Bennett
- Frolik (who will turn into a draft pick for the Devils at the deadline).
Subtract Bennett, add Hall... so weíll be even softer then last years playoff embarrassment?
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:00 PM   #418
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Subtract Bennett, add Hall... so weíll be even softer then last years playoff embarrassment?
Rinaldo and Lucic - Hello? I like Bennett but there's a Hall of a player coming back.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:01 PM   #419
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Yeah, Hall is not Crosby. News at 11.

I donít really even want Hall on the team. I donít care. But the idea that plus minus suddenly is THE stat or that we should turn down every player that isnít Sidney Crosby is bizarre. We all wish we had OíReilly, right? Well, not a lot of people wanted him when he was available. So best laid plans and all.

If you keep waiting to somehow get a perfect player in a trade, youíre going to miss out or be unhappy with the cost. Itís the way it goes. Guys like Hall? Far from perfect, but thatís why heís available and thatís why the cost isnít insane.

And again, Hall comes at a cost in terms of current roster players, future salary etc.

I didnít say +/- is THE stat. I didnít start my evaluation of Hall on a stat. In fact I told you anecdotally what I donít like about Hallís game, that everyone has seen, and the stat +/-, as it turns out, supports it.

The guy is offensively talented, defensively questionable, to the point that these have often basically offset each other.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:04 PM   #420
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Subtract Bennett, add Hall... so weíll be even softer then last years playoff embarrassment?
Faster. You forgot to mention we would be faster with a near point per game winger in his prime.
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