Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Until driving in Canada becomes the hellscape that is Asian or South American driving, I think we can still comfortably drop a few feet on the slippery slope.

Why is that the comparable? Why not compare to somewhere like Germany, where they actually make sure you can drive before handing you a license? Nobody loiters in the left lane there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they spend less on enforcement than us, because people understand they will get a ticket if they break the law. Here, you've got such a small chance of being busted, nobody cares anymore. Is that safer?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why is that the comparable? Why not compare to somewhere like Germany, where they actually make sure you can drive before handing you a license? Nobody loiters in the left lane there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they spend less on enforcement than us, because people understand they will get a ticket if they break the law. Here, you've got such a small chance of being busted, nobody cares anymore. Is that safer?

Traffic deaths per capita is obviously lower in Germany (3.7 vs Canada's 5.8), but we're a lot closer in fatalities per 1 billion road KM (likely due to Canada's ridiculous size) at 4.2 vs 5.1

I'm all for safer roads but Canada isn't Mad Max. I guess "not being as bad as those places" is a low bar, but having driven in Peru, it's a bar I'm glad we easily clear.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I do wonder if the reason we have so many horrible drivers with terrible habits is because laws aren't being enforced, though. I get that ya, if you follow someone for 5 minutes, you will see 20 infractions, and you can't ticket everyone who does something wrong. But at what point are our laws of the road no longer obeyed because it is inconvenient for police? Have we gone to far on the leniency?

That is likely part of the problem, but I'd lean more towards the incredible ease by which one can GET a license in the first place. I'd love to see much more, much involved, and multi-part driver training. I've long felt that the barest minimum should be two week long mandatory courses...one in summer/spring and one in the dead of winter. We're way, way too easy on giving out licenses in the first place.

I'd also like to see mandatory re-testing...every 10 years or so. Fail, and you need to attend a refresher course. Fail the refresher course, and you get a second try. Fail it again (3 strikes), and you are explaining to a traffic court judge why you should be allowed to keep your license.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

That is likely part of the problem, but I'd lean more towards the incredible ease by which one can GET a license in the first place. I'd love to see much more, much involved, and multi-part driver training. I've long felt that the barest minimum should be two week long mandatory courses...one in summer/spring and one in the dead of winter. We're way, way too easy on giving out licenses in the first place.

I'd also like to see mandatory re-testing...every 10 years or so. Fail, and you need to attend a refresher course. Fail the refresher course, and you get a second try. Fail it again (3 strikes), and you are explaining to a traffic court judge why you should be allowed to keep your license.

While we're at it, there should be more stringent regulation around *who* can give out a license.

Ever since the privatization of registries in the 90s (thanks Ralph), there is much more lax enforcement around this process. We all know a guy or gal that couldn't pass a road test in the city (too many stop signs!) after a few tries, so mommy or daddy drove them out to Asscrack, Alberta to take a road test where the largest intersection has a rail crossing. Testing should be restricted to 5 km from your place of residence. I'm unsure how this would work without a fixed address but i would hope there would be provisioning for that.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Traffic deaths per capita is obviously lower in Germany (3.7 vs Canada's 5.8), but we're a lot closer in fatalities per 1 billion road KM (likely due to Canada's ridiculous size) at 4.2 vs 5.1

I'm all for safer roads but Canada isn't Mad Max. I guess "not being as bad as those places" is a low bar, but having driven in Peru, it's a bar I'm glad we easily clear.

Is death the metric to strive for? Obviously yes, dying while driving is the worst outcome. But the millions in economic losses from excessive collisions is also a problem.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why is that the comparable? Why not compare to somewhere like Germany, where they actually make sure you can drive before handing you a license? Nobody loiters in the left lane there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they spend less on enforcement than us, because people understand they will get a ticket if they break the law. Here, you've got such a small chance of being busted, nobody cares anymore. Is that safer?

Have you ever seen one of those lovely autobahn accidents where a truck pulls over for a pass and a car going 250kph crashes into it?

[btimbit]

Convo de-rail here, but I work with the police a lot in my job and tonight there was a fairly serious incident. The 3 officers I talked too could not have been more friendly, upbeat, and thankful towards us.

There's 100% a long ways to go in regards to racism and police brutality, but I have to remind myself that behind all that, the average person doing the job is a great human being.

[InglewoodFan]

Not a great look for CPS to not be disclosing drunk driving and hit and run charges on a staff sergeant. The chief's response for getting caught out shows no real accountability in my opinion.

Like btimbit, my interactions with CPS members has been really good and I thought they were professional and helpful. But there really seems to be some rot pervading the upper levels.

[btimbit]

One thing I can think of is HR and/or union rules that say you can't nbame an officer until charges are officially placed.

Edit: Okay I actually read the article. Seems to be some loophole or something since the charges happened out of their jurisdiction they don't have to be as up front about? Definitely odd

[Maritime Q-Scout]

If you want safer streets, better designed streets are a better way to achieve that than having traffic police work to rule.

• Roundabouts
• Curved Streets lined with Trees
• Narrower Streets
• Improved Access to Public Transport
• Elimination of Clover Exchanges on highways with more than 1,000 cars per hour
• Radar Displays that rather than showing your speed give you a smile or thumbs up if within the limit, or frown or thumbs down if over

All those things would actually improve traffic outcomes and lower deaths over increased enforcement.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

If you want safer streets, better designed streets are a better way to achieve that than having traffic police work to rule.

• Roundabouts
• Curved Streets lined with Trees
• Narrower Streets
• Improved Access to Public Transport
• Elimination of Clover Exchanges on highways with more than 1,000 cars per hour
• Radar Displays that rather than showing your speed give you a smile or thumbs up if within the limit, or frown or thumbs down if over

All those things would actually improve traffic outcomes and lower deaths over increased enforcement.

I'd add.

• Paint more lines on residential street. (demarkate parking areas on shoulders, put in center lines, paint cross walks on every corner)
  
• Eliminate speed limits, while more strictly enforcing signage infractriosn, lane violations....
  
• Phase out weave zones wherever possible.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why is that the comparable? Why not compare to somewhere like Germany, where they actually make sure you can drive before handing you a license? Nobody loiters in the left lane there.

Sure. But the people who complain most about loitering in the left lane are habitual speeders.

Germany is much stricter with training and licensing. But they're also much stricter enforcing speed limits (the autobahn is only a small fraction of the road network). You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Ironhorse]

so to be clear, iggy is being obtuse again, and is complaining that officers aren't automatons ??

A bit OT, but this is how I now see Iggy every time he starts arguing on this forum.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sure. But the people who complain most about loitering in the left lane are habitual speeders.

Germany is much stricter with training and licensing. But they're also much stricter enforcing speed limits (the autobahn is only a small fraction of the road network). You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. That Germany is strict with licensing? ya, I mentioned that. I like that. It keeps people off the road who shouldn't be driving.

What "cake and eat it too?" That by people knowing how to drive, they don't hang out in a lane they aren't supposed to hang out in? Or are you just assuming I'm a scofflaw, and my beef is that I can't break the law? You sure nailed me.

I've driven a few times in Germany. It's great. Maybe come back when you have a point.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sure. But the people who complain most about loitering in the left lane are habitual speeders.

Germany is much stricter with training and licensing. But they're also much stricter enforcing speed limits (the autobahn is only a small fraction of the road network). You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This is honestly irrelevant. If you're in the left lane and someone is coming up behind you going faster, move over. You're not there to enforce speed limits, don't be Paul Blart.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by nik-

This is honestly irrelevant. If you're in the left lane and someone is coming up behind you going faster, move over. You're not there to enforce speed limits, don't be Paul Blart.

Definitely. Blocking them and forcing them to pass on the blind side is WAY more dangerous.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by nik-

This is honestly irrelevant. If you're in the left lane and someone is coming up behind you going faster, move over. You're not there to enforce speed limits, don't be Paul Blart.

I very rarely drive, but here's a situation that I've encountered a few times:

Suppose I'm on the highway driving from Calgary to Banff. The speed limit is 110 kph. I set my cruise control at exactly 110 kph and stay in the right lane. Speeders going faster than the 110 kph limit will frequently pass me in the left lane. Whatever, they're not my concern and don't bother me unless they're egregiously driving at dangerous speeds. Occasionally, a vehicle in front of me will be going slightly below the speed limit, say 100-105 kph. I pull into the left lane to pass. As I'm doing this, a speeding vehicle going 130+ kph approaches in the left behind me while I'm in the process of overtaking the slower traffic ahead. I see the speeder giving me rude looks in my rear view mirror. Sometimes they'll aggressively honk at me. I can't pull back into the right lane because I myself am in the process of using the left lane to pass a slower vehicle. Should I then break the law by also speeding to placate the vehicle in the left lane behind me? Or should the speeding driver behind me suck it up for a few seconds, get off my tail while I finish my overtake and pull back into the right lane, then pass both me and the slower vehicle?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Should I then break the law by also speeding to placate the vehicle in the left lane behind me? Or should the speeding driver behind me suck it up for a few seconds, get off my tail while I finish my overtake and pull back into the right lane, then pass both me and the slower vehicle?

The correct answer is both, in my opinion.

If you're passing, speeding up at least 5km to complete your pass faster isn't unreasonable.

The person behind is also a massive ####### for not just giving it a gosh darn minute

[Fuzz]

You should just continue your overtake, but if it takes more than 30 seconds to a minute, you should probably just hit the accelerator a bit and get back over. If you doddle in an overtake for 2-3 minutes, I don't think that's really appropriate. The left lane is to be shared with everyone, by you occupying the spot for an extended period of time, that's not sharing. No cop is going to give you a ticket if someone is riding your bumper and you accelerate to get out of their way.

[PepsiFree]

Yeah, legally you should maintain the speed limit even when passing, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to speed up a bit to make your pass. As Fuzz said, tho, if you can’t make a pass within 30 seconds you probably shouldn’t be passing. If the driver you’re passing speeds up making it difficult, go back behind them.