Attendance woes at the dome?!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

A quick google and I found a ticket stub for the 1989 Game 5 game against Montreal in the Stanley Cup finals. Section C (which I believe would be somewhere in the 100s), row 12, seat 18 for $32.50. Adjusted for inflation that is $57.48.

For a regular season game this Saturday against Washington, the Flames are trying to sell a ticket in Section 106. Row 12. Seat 11 for $190.25.

Back in '89, a ticket holder was probably the only one in the family with a full-time job, and he was raising three kids. $58 in today's dollars was about the max he could afford for an evening of entertainment. Big-name concerts at the time, like Rod Stewart and Dire Straits, also ran around $30. Again, that was the ceiling for an evening of entertainment back then.

Society and economics have changed. Skilled professionals today earn more, adjusted for inflation, than their counterparts earned 30 years ago. Furthermore, they're usually married to another skilled professional. This has created a new class of consumers, the 10 per cent, who have a lot of disposable income.

The problem is that class of people have options for entertainment. Fine dining, vacations, live music, electronic gadgets. They have money to spend, but everyone is chasing their dollars.

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Look around at the NHL and pro sports in general. Calgary isn't a unique situation. I think we have reached peak pro sports revenues, or very close to it across North America. Fans only have so much money to spend on entertainment.

I don't think the future of pro sports is mass live audiences. The trend to going for the big whale is only going to increase. The arenas of 30 years from now will consist of little more than 500 private suites with their own sushi bars, sommeliers, and spas.

[Corral]

Agree with cliff. The flames would rather charge even more for tickets and sell to a small market of wealthy spenders. The rest of the stiffs get to watch on tv or a streaming service and are fed new jerseys every year or two.

The next arena will have less seating than the dome

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Back in '89, a ticket holder was probably the only one in the family with a full-time job, and he was raising three kids. $58 in today's dollars was about the max he could afford for an evening of entertainment. Big-name concerts at the time, like Rod Stewart and Dire Straits, also ran around $30. Again, that was the ceiling for an evening of entertainment back then.

Society and economics have changed. Skilled professionals today earn more, adjusted for inflation, than their counterparts earned 30 years ago. Furthermore, they're usually married to another skilled professional. This has created a new class of consumers, the 10 per cent, who have a lot of disposable income.

The problem is that class of people have options for entertainment. Fine dining, vacations, live music, electronic gadgets. They have money to spend, but everyone is chasing their dollars.



I don't think the future of pro sports is mass live audiences. The trend to going for the big whale is only going to increase. The arenas of 30 years from now will consist of little more than 500 private suites with their own sushi bars, sommeliers, and spas.

Agree with this. It's a bit hard to compare, as prices have shifted from material goods to entertainment. It used to be (adjusted for inflation) a lot more expensive for stuff like electronics, appliances, etc. I remember my dad buying a VHS player for over $1K back in the mid 80's. Same thing with stuff like CD players, Walkmans, camcorders, etc. Now, you can buy an MP3 player for 30 bucks on Amazon, or a 4K 80 inch TV for 3 grand.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Corral

Agree with cliff. The flames would rather charge even more for tickets and sell to a small market of wealthy spenders. The rest of the stiffs get to watch on tv or a streaming service and are fed new jerseys every year or two.

1) It's probably a smarter and more efficient way to do business.

2) It's also why I'm wary of putting a significant amount of public dollars towards the new arena. It's a subsidy for the rich, and will shut out an even larger % of the population from attending games.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I miss that 2004 level of support where the Flames just had a blue collar, lovable team that took everyone by surprise. Fan support was off the charts for a couple years afterwards too

Unfortunately, things have changed a lot since 2004. How crazy is it that 2004 is as far away now as 1989 was back in '04.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by heep223

I don’t agree on your third point. Every large city is filled with migrants who didn’t grow up in them. You think Toronto isn’t filled with immigrants? New York? In fact Calgary is probably the most homogenous and white city in Canada. In regards to millennials, this is a generalization and again I don’t agree at all. It just depends on the circles you are in.

First two points are legit.

Fair enough, but Toronto is also a massive mega city with approximately 6 million people in the GTA. Pretty darn easy to sell out a hockey game especially with the way the city is built with a huge population living within walking distance to the arena.

The immigration thing was not my main point as more of just an add on. My parents themselves are immigrants and im a die hard hockey fan. But it’s very obvious to me that the young people growing up today just aren’t interested in the same things their parents were interested in.

It’s the same reason the why the head of NBC blamed millennials on the gargantuan drop in ratings for the last Olympic games in Rio. Golf has even blamed millennials for lower viewership. The CFL is declining. You can add ESPN and the rest of cable. It’s been pretty well documented that millennials have very different tastes then their parents.

[rage2]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Is there cheese still there or not?

They changed the recipe a couple seasons ago but it’s still delicious and still there. This year they have a philly cheese steak made with that cheese and it’s incredible.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Unfortunately, things have changed a lot since 2004. How crazy is it that 2004 is as far away now as 1989 was back in '04.

Yikes. That is scary

If you think about it, a lot of people who went to a lot of games and were very invested in 2004, even if they were fortunate enough not to be victimized by the economic downturn, are likely:
- fatigued, there were a few years thereafter where the team was good but we are now about a decade removed from the long slide that started with the Keenan out, Brent in, boring team on the ice debacle , or
- simply in a different phase of their life. Somebody who was, say in their mid 20s through early 30s, which a lot of people were, these people now may have families, kids, etc. Different priorities for any available dollars

[pepper24]

I still think tickets are reasonable for STH pricing where I share with friends. New rink will be nice but probably price us out after first season. Happened with friends in Edmonton.

[CaptainCrunch]

I gave up on my season ticket split a bunch of years ago. To me it definitely priced me out of the market.




It had less to do with the team on ice and more to do with the sheer cost of going to a game, buying some beers and having some snacks. Even if you go to 10 games its a couple of thousand bucks if your seats are only half way decent.


I also have slowly lost my love of the NHL game in general.

[Iggy Snipe]

When I first bought my season tickets, back in 2004, my friend and I were probably paying about 1400$ per seat at the time for a total of $2800 roughly. Beers at the time were 5$ each.

Today, our seats are roughly 6600$ for both.

So in 14 years, the beers more than doubled, and the cost per seat more than doubled. When I first had season tickets, I was single. Now I have 3 kids and a wife. To take one of my kids to the game, its costs me around $200 by the time we get home. Its insane, especially considering the product has diminished, more so in the last five years.

It is very difficult to justify this cost year after year, and to be honest, I am enjoying the games less and less every year right now, yet the cost in increasing. There is a lot less emotion in hockey, and less entertainment value IMO. I love the speed of the game, but the heart and emotion is lacking a lot of the time, which really irritates me most nights.

I was at the game on thursday vs Pitt. In a 9-1 game, the Flames didn't even show any emotion. Zero f$%^s given. I was embarrassed to be a Flames fan to be honest. Our "Core" group of players, is probably the softest, and least emotional group in the NHL, outside of Tkatchuk.

Things like this, is why the Dome does not fill up on the regular anymore. Price point is one thing, but if we had a great product, the seats would be full regardless of the cost.

[Flamenspiel]

A couple of things, i only buy the beer before the game, when its 5$. As to the other aspects, who really cares about a good intermission show? The Flames need to get back to winning consistently at home, from a demand perspective that is all that matters.

It would be interesting to see the Vegas Knights absolutely tank this year, if only to see one of those eratz shows in front of a half empty arena.

[jayswin]

The NHL will soon find out how much emotion on the ice played into connection between team and fans.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The NHL will soon find out how much emotion on the ice played into connection between team and fans.

Not soon enough, but they eventually will

[WesternCanadaKing]

All this discussion when it's really about having a winning team.

Yeah, the experience and all that are important but what puts butts in the seats is a good chance you'll see the home team win, and the atmosphere that goes along with that. This is true across all sports.

Nobody wants to pay to see a loser.

[Erick Estrada]

When you continually send your fans home unhappy there will be consequences. The fact that the 2015 playoffs 2nd round playoff loss to the Ducks is the 2nd largest achievement over the organization's last 30 years is all you need to know about why fans are starting to stay home. We have seen this record too many times and a month into this season it's still the same old disappointing Flames.

[Joborule]

Considering how ####ty the franchise has been over the past 30 years, this market has been pretty damn loyal to the team, and still showing terrific support. We've had more crappy seasons than not over the past several years, and the dome has been mostly full night in, night out. This is a strong Canadian market because for the rebuilding years (which is current) in Vancouver and Ottawa, there's a noticeable amount of empty seats.

[Split98]

That was a triple-header of truth

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Considering how ####ty the franchise has been over the past 30 years, this market has been pretty damn loyal to the team, and still showing terrific support. We've had more crappy seasons than not over the past several years, and the dome has been mostly full night in, night out. This is a strong Canadian market because for the rebuilding years (which is current) in Vancouver and Ottawa, there's a noticeable amount of empty seats.

Yep. This organization over the last 30 years has been bottom 5 in regards to success yet are near top 5 in attendance annually . If you take a step back and think they have made it into the 2nd round only twice in 30 years it's actually a miracle they can fill half the arena yet fans keep shelling out a lot of dough to watch the Flames fail over and over. The fans are the last place any fingers should be pointed as this is a loyal fan base that deserves a lot better than what the Flames organization has afforded.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Is there cheese still there or not?

It's not as good as I remembered it being. Still tasty but its almost on par with the old el paso stuff you can buy in stores IMO.